Change to Slough Grammar's admission criteria.

[onthego]

"Personally I would much rather that my child were going to school with the 'naturally bright' children with naive or uninformed or simply uninterested parents than the children who have been relentlessly tutored since Y4 or longer." Drummer

Yes, but you are in danger of labelling tutored children as less bright, otherwise the super selectives would not dominate the exam league tables.

I suppose it is a question of whether a person agrees with the principle that all children should be afforded the opportunity to go to the best schools.

The current system is by no means perfect but it gives the same opportunity to all children, albeit I would concede that not all children enter the exam room similarly prepared.

If you limit places to only local children then, invariably, it will be the middle class who will be able to relocate nearer those schools, the poor will not.

That said perhaps if we penalised children for going to league topping primary schools perhaps that would be a better compromise? At least then poorer children may have a chance of going to grammar school and it would no longer be the preserve of the middle class.

[okeydokey]

quite right too I think! I have long wondered why the people of Slough have put up with a system that serves their children so badly and simply encourages mass tutoring across West London! Hopefully they will all move to full catchment and get rid of ranking altogether.

I am new and shocked at the level of resentment here.

Grammars do not encourage mass tutoring, it's the fact that the government does not provide enough choice and balance within the schools.

Even if you are 'natuarally' bright you still have to be tutored to get into grammars and/or private - I know the private schools encourage it within the schools themselves. The grammars offer a chance to all children. If the 'West London' parents are tutoring I would have assumed so would all the local parents too especially if they have the option of a grammar near them.

[sweetviolet]

We are all in the same boat where ever we live and I think we are all trying to do the best for our children.

I already have a child in Grammar. When it comes to the second one we will decide closer to the time what we feel will suit them, it may or may not be Grammar.

[fleximum]

I am new and shocked at the level of resentment here.

What do I have to feel 'resentful' for? I don't live in Slough, My eldest child passed easily for Bucks (without any tutoring other than the State School preparation). He also was offered a place a Langley which we declined. My DD isn't going to even bother sitting for Slough. She will probably pass, but if she doesn't the local non-selective is excellent (many very bright children choose not to take the test and go straight there. So, what do I have to be resentful for exactly?

In my opinion, which I am entitled to have, the Slough super selective system does not serve the children of Slough well. It is a town with high immigration levels and some considerable deprivation and I don't think that the system is working well. By that I mean that I don't think that the top 25-30% of academically able children are gaining entry to a grammar school.

It also strikes me as very sad that children are spending so much time studying to pass a narrow test and missing out on so much else they should be doing.

[onthego]

Fleximum, although I agree with the general tenure of your point, I would add, living in Slough, most children, surviving or poor, who sit the 11 + are also are tutored for the 11 +. Even in Bucks I would suggest that most children who sit the test are tutored, you seem to be blessed with very capable children.

What I am slightly confused about, from the general slant of your posts, is that you are against cross border infiltration yet your child took the Langley exam ? yet I assume you were located in Bucks?

This year with your DD you will not sit the Slough exams but you have an excellent alternative, the problem is that most parents do not have an excellent alternative in addition to a local grammar school, should they just concede to their fate and let their children drop into the sink?

[fleximum]

What I am slightly confused about, from the general slant of your posts, is that you are against cross border infiltration yet your child took the Langley exam ? yet I assume you were located in Bucks?

I think perhaps that the 'slant' is yours and I am astonished at your term "cross border infiltration". I never said I am against out of catchment children gaining places. I only said I am against 'super selection' which in my view promotes even more tutoring than goes on in Bucks and that I don't think this is good for 1) the children who are tutored nor 2) for the 'naturally bright' children who are not prepared at all.

The fact that Super Selectives dominate the league tables is utterly meaningless - of course they schould dominate, they have creamed off the very top academic children with the pushiest/most supportive parents. However these schools rarely top when you look at calculations of 'added value'. Personally I think these super bright children would do just as well in a Bucks type grammar which also do very well and have a slightly broader ability range.

[onthego]

Fleximum, it may that I am confused but if we accept the concept of out of catchment selection then how is this different to super selective, then by the same token those schools can accept children regardless of where they live.

You previously stated " the Slough super selective system does not serve the children of Slough well" but you state that you are not against out of catchment children gaining places?

[chad]

There isn't a 'perfect' system, we all have to work within whatever system we have.

There are always going to be more advantaged children... whether it is because their family has enough money to buy a house within the catchment of a successful school, or have very supportive parents, or wealth enough to hire tutors, or be a sibling, or they are more able children.....etc
Until all schools can reach the standard of the 'best' schools (not just academically) parents will strive to ensure their child has the best education they can.

[fleximum]

You previously stated " the Slough super selective system does not serve the children of Slough well" but you state that you are not against out of catchment children gaining places?

not at all, once all the qualified, in-catchment children have got a place, then by distance out-of-catchment.

Like chad says, there isn't a 'perfect' system but I happen to think that the Bucks system is fairer than the Slough system especially given the demographics of Slough. And really, your own personal situations aside, which sytem would you rather have as a national system?

[onthego]

Fleximum, I'm not sure I agree.

With respect, I think your stance is driven by your own good fortune, living in Bucks/bright children/exceptional alternatives.

I live in Slough and what you propose would suit me however, as a matter of principle, I believe that all children should be afforded the opportunity to succeed and the best schools should not be the reserve of the few.

Sure the Bucks scenario would be the best, but the reality is that it will never happen throughout the country.

I wonder if your eldest child had not succeeded in securing a place in Bucks and if alternative was Langley whether you would be so critical of the, general, position of the Slough Grammars?

With regards to the Slough scenario, logically the places would generally go to local children, and the pass threshold would decline because fewer OOC applicants would bother. This in turn would reduce the quality and ability of the remaining schools to thrive because the better able children would no longer go to the non grammar schools, and we must remember this is Slough, with all it's challenges, and not leafy Bucks and I doubt whether many would be described as exceptional. As I mentioned previously the middle class parents will be able to buy their places by moving near to the schools.