Year 5 levels

Nervousmum · Post by **Nervousmum** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:59 pm

Is 5C (in both English and Maths) at the end of year 5 likely to be good enough for KE Five Ways? I am not sure how useful these levels are as predictors. What sort of levels have children who got into KEFW been getting at the end of year 5?

ews147 · Post by **ews147** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:14 am

Hi,

I would say 5c's are good indication that he has the ability to pass for five ways, so long as he an manage the NVR section. Good luck !

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:27 am

I don't think you can make a firm connection between SATS levels and KE results but they're certainly a strong indication that a child should be entered for the exam. I thought you had one there already? Is this one of your own children or are you thinking of someone else?

Mike

Nervousmum · Post by **Nervousmum** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:39 pm

I do have a child there, but we never knew SATS levels at end of year 5 for him. So, I was a bit surprised to get this info from the school for child 2. I was never sure whether child 1 would get in, but I just wondered if 5Cs should give me some comfort!

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:08 pm

I can't help thinking that being given SATs predictions in Y5 could be a very mixed blessing - if we'd had them we would probably have given up all thoughts of GS, I'm glad yours are so good. I don't think you can ever take 11+ exams for granted but 5c is a very good level in Y5.

Mike

fm · Post by fm » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:33 am

Both my personal and professional experience suggests Sats should only be used a very general guide to success in the KE exam.

Considering just the English component of the exam, last year it tested the range of their vocabulary, their ability to answer a multiple choice comprehension and their ability to spell via a cloze test which did not give choices. Skills required for this task are not the same as skills required to do well in Sats.

Again, doing well in KE maths requires good reading skills to decipher what is being asked in problems, fast mental arithmetic, ability to apply some basic algebra and a good sense of the magnitude of fractions and a fluency with conversion between decimals, fractions and percentages. I don't think any of these feature strongly in the Sats maths paper. Indeed I have had pupils who are able to get full marks in Sats maths (5A) who have struggled with the KE paper due to time pressure and inability to understand what was being asked.

Like Mike says, I would take 5c's as encouragement to enter the child but nothing else.

Good luck.

ews147 · Post by **ews147** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:05 pm

Yes,I would agree that nothing can be taken for granted with regard to levels.However, I do think that , generally, (though i know there are exceptions and that schools dont always get it right ) that pupils given mid L4 grades in maths and english would really struggle with the demands of the 11+ for KE. From my son's primary school for example, there were only 2 successful boys for Camp Hill and Five Ways (From 10 entrants) , and both were forecast level 5 . Having said that, backing up FM,there were one or two others forecast a L5 who didn't pass.

It is, indeed ,a very difficult exam and nothing can be taken for granted. Fortunately, my ds was one of the lucky ones who made it, and I genuinely felt for those who didn't.
Nervousmom, as I'm sure you already know, being familiar with the skills required and practising those skills is the key. Once your child does that and his best, there is nothing more that can , or should, be expected.

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:22 am

I do think that , generally, (though i know there are exceptions and that schools dont always get it right ) that pupils given mid L4 grades in maths and english would really struggle with the demands of the 11+ for KE.

As the parent of a boy who had predicted 4s [edit - and that was in Y6

], I think you have to look at a broader picture than that. From the parents we talked to at induction (a tiny and possibly very unrepresentative handful I must admit!) I don't think it's by any means unknown for boys with predicted (or even actual) L4s to pass. You know your own child best and have to make your own judgements as to whether the levels are a (a) a realistic reflection of a child's ability or (b) understate their ability because they're lazy, awkward or uncooperative and don't really operate well in the classroom environment (particularly with boys) or (c) overstate their ability because they conform, work hard and fit in.

[edit again - ews147, it's wonderful to hear that your son passed for KE - I was worrying about you on results day!]

Mike

clarendon · Post by **clarendon** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:07 pm

Hi and echo to what Mike and fm have said. As my daughter's yr 6 teacher said it's the task the children are given. She was working at 4b/4a in English right up till just before the Sats. She managed a 5 but it was by no means certain that she would.

My son came top out of 60 children in the QCA maths test in yr 5 but his mental arithmetic is rather lacking for KE standard! It's a current work in progress

clarendon

ews147 · Post by **ews147** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Thanks mike - ds made it for Camphill, but he is going to KES on an 'assisted place'.

Anyway, glad to hear about your son's success, given the disconcerting forecast - it just goes to show, nothing can be taken for granted with this test. My son's teacher said ability to think quickly is the best indicator, whilst another said that if a child was in the middle group for maths, she would discourage the parent from entering the child for the exam.She said it was v important they were thriving in the top set.She also said pupils with outstanding English skills , but average maths skills would have no chance with the KE exam. Interesting...but would you say it is true? is there a formulae for accurately predicting success or failure?