Advice Please

Eleven Plus (11+) in Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Wrekin

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moved
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Post by moved »

I'm not able to help with the Birmingham system but I do know that it is sometimes easier to get a free place (through scholarship and bursary) at a private school than it is to get into a grammar. Children in Essex get free places at a rather good school even though they do not quite make it into the central Essex grammars.
fm

Post by fm »

As far as I know, only KES and KEHS independents in Birmingham have generous bursary systems. It is not, however, sufficient to just pass the entrance exam; the child has to have scored well enough to be considered before the bursary pot has 'run out'. A child who is likely to do this is also fairly likely to pass the free grammars.

Also, to put it in perspective, KEHS has only 20% of its pupils receiving assistance while KES has 30% but this includes non-means tested scholarships (which are much more likely to be awarded to children already benefiting from private prep. school), with only 10% awarded entirely free places.

At any rate, I would not call either school particularly 'socially inclusive'.
KenR
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Location: Birmingham

Post by KenR »

Oh can someone please clear up for wether there is only one test for places at GS inc Sutton schools for next year, a little confused ?
We believe that for the Nov 2010 exam the Bishop Vesey/Sutton Girl Grammar and KE Foundation Grammar exams will all be via combined exam. Both papers were bespoke 11+ papers set by the Univ of Durham CEM Unit so it makes sense to have a single exam.

I can't find the link on the KE Foundation web site or Birmingham LEA site but I recall reading this somewhere.
hermanmunster
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Post by hermanmunster »

think there was some discussion on the forum about it?
wobeeb
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Post by wobeeb »

Hi
The discussion is under the Birmingham Forum entitled
Proposed Admission changes 2011

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satelli ... %2FWrapper

Wobeeb
um
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Post by um »

Just some quick advice - no doubt your daughter is bright but you need to look carefully at the school achievement overall, not just the reputation.
IN particular, what percentages are getting level 5s at the end of Year 6?

My eldest son went from being way at the top of his year in a good reputation, good city suburb school to just about keeping in the top groups when he moved to a school in a better area, where children had started at a higher level from the beginning.

And although you say she is level 5 across all subjects, which is fabulous, especially in writing, perhaps I should temper this by saying that at least half my sons year were level 5 Maths by the end of Year 5.
With only 120 places available at Camp Hill Girls (and about 400 Primary schools in Birmingham and 60 in Solihull) getting level 5s doesn't guarantee entry.

I would check the dcsf performance tables, see where your daughter's school lies, and check the Ofsted report too on their website.

I know one thing - hardly any children will get into the Grammars from so-so city schools. They are, with a few exceptions who were likely well tutored, from very good state Primaries or independents.

Getting a bursary/scholarship to an Indi will be even harder as a higher level of literacy is required, given that essay writing is an important part of the Indi exams but doesn't feature in the Grammars.

It is good you've identified vocab as a point to work on - we had this with my son and I'll have it as an issue with the younger children too. What I do now is read regularly to the children - children's classics such as Wind in the Willows Little Women etc., are a good start for bedtime reading. I read just yesterday that if you teach a 3 year old the alphabet and numbers, it has little impact on their attainment later, but if you read to them once a day it does have a huge impact.
mike1880
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Post by mike1880 »

I think I have to argue with that, um!

Our son's school got a "satisfactory" from its last Ofsted but sent pretty much a table-full to Camp Hill Girls and about as many again to Five Ways, Handsworth and Camp Hill Boys. (1) Ofsted ratings are currently about processes, not outcomes - about how you measure achievement, not whether you're getting any. (2) If someone is getting level 5s in a mediocre primary that means they're doing very well indeed and have a very good chance of getting into GS (given the caveat that SATS aren't that reliable a predictor for 11+!).

However, I would agree that a child in a so-so city school has much less propsect of getting the basic grounding they need to approach some aspects of the exam.

I also agree that getting a scholarship at an independent would be vanishingly unlikely from a state school (still going to hope for one next year though :wink: ), although a bursary would perhaps be more likely (guessing that there wouldn't be many at prep school who would qualify financially for a bursary).

Don't be put off, BTdad - you haven't got anything to lose by trying.

Mike
moved
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Post by moved »

As this is only half way through the academic year then level 5s already is exceptionally good.

Although SATs grades do not indicate an 11+ pass, level 5s in year 5 at this stage do indicate a very able child and very able children have a better chance in the 11+.

Carry on coaching BTdad and try every avenue.
BTdad
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Post by BTdad »

Well school is around 50 mark in table so I know there are alot better. I knew this anyway as we tried to get her into a school consistently in top ten but could not. I realise level mark is just a guide and does not gaurantee anything, just trying to get as much info as possible. She does recieve tution and does homework I set Bond 'how to do' books. I am really taken aback at the levels of vocabulary required for entrance and know alot of adults that would not have a clue with some of these words. I also realise that vocabulary is not an indication of intelligence but is what is required for entrance so I am looking into this also.

I am surprised that nobody really mentioned this area in converation with other parents at school ect. I mean she loves reading but sort of books like Jaquline Wilson and Micheal Morpugo, which has nowhere near needed levels of vocbulary.

As regards exams suppose sorts wheat from chaff, being only one but I can imagine really talented children suffering from anxiety or lack of experience failing not from lack of ability but nerves ect. Still is quite young for something that can be so important in a persons life to only have one only shot at.
moved
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:42 pm
Location: Chelmsford and pleased

Post by moved »

Listening to story CDs of the classics helps a lot. Probably easier than starting with reading the "classics" straight off.

I did put up a book list at one point but no idea where it is. I will try and find the thread when I have time.

Enid Blyton books are quite a good starting point as they are now old fashioned and have a much wider vocab than modern fiction. As they were written to be easily read the plots are very accessible and most children enjoy them.
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