Order on Preference Form

[fm]

By the same token, I know parents who regard Camp Hill as being somewhat shabby in comparison to KES. Then there are parents who opt for the premier public schools, Eton and Harrow, who would see KES as really bottom drawer. And so on, and so on.

The smartest thing to do is attend the worst comprehensive you can find, then anything else seems a step up. We were lucky to have the very worst comprehensive (17% GCSE's A-C) on our doorstep when we looked for our son 9 years ago, and, having visited it first, the middling ones took on a rosy glow in comparison. I remember coming out of an appeal for a middling one (which we fortunately won) and saying to my husband how ridiculous it was to be going through hoops to achieve a school that, in many other parts of the country, would be regarded as distinctly mediocre (which, indeed, it turned out to be although, in its defence, my son did really enjoy idling his time away there).

On a different note, Mike is right about the figures. It is about 3800 who do the exam and half of these will not be realistic candidates, either because they are nowhere near the required level or haven't done the appropriate preparation. For clever, well-prepared children, I think the statistical chances of entry are more like 1 in 2 or 3, and for the very clever, very well-prepared, it is almost certainty!

[mike1880]

The table in the Mail is extremely illuminating for one or two bits of theorising. There are "only" 2734 first preferences for 595 KE places and "only" 3674 for the 999 total places in B'ham. That's a much more realistic indication of the level of competition.

Comps vary a lot, I've liked most of the ones I've seen (one exception, and that was supposed to be the best one - however, I've avoided going round our nearest, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't like it one little bit). The common feature is that it's all too obvious that none of them have anywhere near the money to spend that the KEs have.

Mike

[um]

Don't apologise Brummum - Ninestiles was also a massive incentive for my son to pass the 11 plus. It has also made me mistrust Ofsted ever since.
After driving past the grafittied gate and walls to the mud-bath car park, we left the open evening early, after being seated in front of a skinhead dad with tattoos all over his neck, muttering something that sounded suspiciously like 'f***** pakis' periodically during the presentation, (no offence meant to anyone by reprinting that - just quoting) which effectively focused on how disciplined the school was (i.e. like Borstal).
I am sure a lot of children do fine there - and no doubt there are some great children there. But the prison-like atmosphere must be stifling.
As for the GCSE results, if you actually analyse them, they are very low - especially considering that 10% of their pupils are admitted on ability. Grades are boosted by BTECs etc etc.
When I drive past (every morning and afternoon) I am surprised to see that very few pupils actually have any bag, they are just wandering around in their polo shirt and sweater (no ties here). They are either so technologically advanced, they have all their books and homework in a memory stick in their pocket - or maybe they just don't have any books or homework - it is a mystery.
However in saying this I am not trying to 'rubbish' the school or downplay the excellent work done by staff there (Ninestiles used once upon a time to be a 'sink' school with around 10% getting the 5GCSEs +Eng+Maths), I am just being realistic as is only fair.
The Ofsted ratings are not 100% transparent to parents. Ninestiles is rated Outstanding probably because children arrive from local Primaries, well below national standards, and then make good progress. Tudor Grange in Solihull is also rated Outstanding, because children arrive from local Primaries, well above national standards, and then make good progress. From a parent's point of view, Tudor Grange is of course the better school. Sadly the house prices nearby also reflect this, making it out of reach for many of us. Ninestiles may well be a good back-up for a bright child, but I wouldn't consider it as being on par with a Grammar, including Handsworth Grammar - the Grammars will offer far more to an above-average child.

[brummum]

We went to look at FW today, I also went to the open morning but this was my son's first visit. He loved it and preferred it to CH, but the Head's talk again concentrated on the condensed curriculum followed in Yrs 7 & 8, and the early taking of GCSE's. Then on to the number of GCSE's taken etc - all seems to be rather 'exam focused' to me.

The Head mentioned the Birmingham Mail too, as good as said it was a load of scaremongering rubbish.

I think the whole Grammar ethos is what I am hoping for for DS, as well as GCSE results, the discipline and respect that the boys (and girls in the case of FW ) have for the teachers seems to be somewhat lacking in the comps. The Head Boy at CH gave a talk, he was so confident and articulate - hard to believe that he was in fact a schoolboy.

Then I came home and ran the gaunlet of the muttering hoodies hanging round the local shops who must be of a similar age to the Head Boy. Its such a shame that all the kids can't have a decent education and that we have to resort to putting pressure on our 10 -11 years olds to try to get good schools.

Saying that - my older boy went to Yardleys and left with 10 A* - B GCSE's, did A levels and a HND, so I think that if a child really wants to do well they can - but they can do it more easily in a Grammar

I suppose I should really look at Aston tomorrow - but I have Open Day fatigue!

[KenR]

Hi Brummum

One of the most striking things we found at KE 5-ways when my son first started was how supportive the older and 6th form students were to the new year-7 students.

In terms of exams, all of the KE and B/ham grammars are very similar in terms of exam focus but one the results of the tough 11+ extrance exam is that they are all very capable if they work hard.

My only concern about 5-ways is the IB option for the 6th form as well as A levels - I just wonder if they have bitten off more than they can chew! We did offer the choice to my son of moving to a 6th form college at the end of GCSEs but he's adamant he wants to stay - which I guess represents a vote of confidence in the school.

[no_ball]

We attended the open day for KE Aston this morning and Warwick school this afternoon to benchmark both KECH & KES respectively. What a day of contrast!!

[ok1]

Penny for your thoughts...... No_ball
interested to hear your take on the what you thought

[brummum]

Hi Noball

I didn't get to KEAston. What do you think compared to CH? Have you looked at FW? Whats the surrounding area like?

My son plays football for our district and we couldn't make any of the Saturday open days. CH and FW were very accommodating in arranging alternative tours - the CH one was actually with the Head - although we went to Thursday's extra open day instead.

I asked Aston if they could let us have a quick look round and the answer was a resounding No

They said we could look round if he gets a place there. Bit late then if he takes a dislike to it, put me right off!

We've got the open day invitation for KES on 2 October - we would have to apply for Assisted Place if he were to try for a place there, does anyone know if the boys who are there on Assisted Places get any hassle or teasing - of the 'we've got 2 ponies and a villa in the South of France - what have you got' type?

I should imagine its quite jaw- dropping to see the facilities at KES. We could go down the KES to CH to local comp route again

[serialtester]

Hi Brummum

One of the most striking things we found at KE 5-ways when my son first started was how supportive the older and 6th form students were to the new year-7 students.

In terms of exams, all of the KE and B/ham grammars are very similar in terms of exam focus but one the results of the tough 11+ extrance exam is that they are all very capable if they work hard.

My only concern about 5-ways is the IB option for the 6th form as well as A levels - I just wonder if they have bitten off more than they can chew! We did offer the choice to my son of moving to a 6th form college at the end of GCSEs but he's adamant he wants to stay - which I guess represents a vote of confidence in the school.

Hear hear Ken!!!

My daughter loves 5-Ways, she's just started her GCSE's (she's in Y9). As far as I understand it they are not forced to take millions of GCSE's to make the school look good in league tables, the rationale is that many of the pupils ultimately want to win places on the best and most competitive courses at the best and most competitive universities and the school wants to ensure that they can do that.

The current Y9 will be taking GCSE's over 3 years. Some courses might be completed in 2 years leaving time to pick up additional GCSE's or AS Levels.

The 'sink' school (complete with graffiti and common parents!) that my husband teaches in has been following a similar model for about 3 years with his top set pupils, as has the 'sink' school that my Y7 son attends

In many initiatives regarding curriculum planning the grammars are often behind the curve compared to their comprehensive cousins.

[brummum]

My son preferred FW ways over CH for the following reasons: they play competetive football, there are nice views of the reservoir from the windows and they have a smart uniform

But he says he not really too fussed where he goes as long as he can wear a blazer and tie.