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 Post subject: Sats and Grammar Place
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:48 am 
I am not completely up to speed on the SATS exams this coming week, the past papers seem reasonable enough.

In short, can someone kindly advise what relevance the marks are to a child who has an offer of a place at a Grammar school?
Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:05 am 
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The Sats marks will be used to set targets at secondary in the same way as KS1 sats were used to set the targets for Y6.

eg if a child was 2a at KS1 then they should be 4a at end of KS2. The figures are used to see how schools are progressing the child ( not quite the word I want ,but brain dead this morning!).

personally I think the results should be part of a wider assessment and not just a snapshot of 45 mins on one day, but hey-ho..


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:15 pm 
I think that would entirely depend on your school. I can only speak for CHG who did not seem to take the slightest notice of their Sats levels, either for targets or, indeed, to keep an eye on weaker students.

My own daughter went in on 4a Sats in English but was still given a target of 7a for the end of Key Stage 3 which was somewhat on the overambitious side. Nor have any of her teachers been particularly aware of or interested in her starting point, expressing only mild surprise when I have mentioned it.

When I asked her maths teacher why she had such an ambitious Maths level, she said it was based on her entry exam mark and the marks of tests done in the first week or so of secondary school(Cats, maybe, or similar). Possibly this was why her English was also high, as in no notice taken whatsoever of the Sats.

It was a similar story in Five Ways, where my elder child went in on a 4 in English. None of her teachers registered it and, indeed she was always well thought of in this subject, going on to get an A* and A in the GCSE's in Eng Lit and Lang. Recently Five Ways have taken to setting in English from the Christmas, and it is definitely not on the basis of Sats because I know at least 2 5a children who have ended in middle and lowest set.

Perhaps grammar school teachers are as deeply suspicious of Sats exams as I am, believing them scarcely relevant to future performance. Yes, the child who scores 5's may usually go on to do well at GCSE so it seems as if there is a correlation but I know several boys who scored such, went on to mediocre comprehensives, scored 5's again at KS3, then C's at GCSE.

I just don't believe Camp Hill Boys would take any notice of Sats level whatsoever but possibly someone will come along and state otherwise.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 2:43 pm 
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No one at CHB has ever mentioned them. They seem to work from internal assessments. Ours went in with level 4 English but I'd say that's possibly his strongest subject at CHB; level 5 SATS and a silver in Junior Maths Challenge last year don't seem to have stopped them fretting about his maths.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:12 pm 
Thanks for the advice, my DS is going to KECH this september.

I have relies entirely on his present school to prepare him for the SATS exam next week, a novel situation as I had no faith in the same school preparing him for the entrance tests as they are only interested in local indie feeder outfit.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
If the Grammars thought that SATs were a good measure of a child's ability and potential, maybe they would have used very similar style exam for the 11 plus.
The fact that they don't shows that they value other measures of ability.

My ds1 got the same level in English writing as Michael Rosen when he took the test recently - level 4 :lol:

The teacher was admittedly surprised, having put him down as a level 5, but apparently he forgot to jump through a few hoops on the day.
I am pretty certain CH don't take a great deal of notice of these results and for most children who have passed for Grammar. the time between December and September is a wilderness of complete boredom.

For example my ds2 in Year 5 tends to get either 100% in his past paper maths SATS tests, or just makes a few daft mistakes. And the school have still been giving him more KS2 Maths SATS to practice :roll: . Is he going to be hanging around on this level (he is assessed at high 5) for the next 12 months :?: Seems a bit like flaying a dead horse to me. I feel that once a child is getting 90% plus, sitting more tests at that level is a waste of time.
For bright children, SATS just sits on top of their chances to keep on moving up, and so they stagnate and are really just sitting waiting to start secondary. What a waste of time. My ds2 goes to a good school, as schools go, but If I could possibly afford to send my ds2 to Indie I would now, so that he could at least live out the next year actually moving forward somehow.

Anyway, I thought this article was interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ation.sats


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:09 pm 
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You could ask the school about the new level 6 tests. http://www.qcda.gov.uk/assessment/7602.aspx


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
Thanks, mitasol :D
My ds2 is in Year 5 so no SATS this year, but the knowledge that there is an extra step available out there, is great.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Location: Not in a hole in the ground but in a land where once they dwelt-the Beormingas
We've been having a similar debate in our house. Ds2 has his SATs at the start of the week. Will KEA be using them as a form of assessment??? Dh insists that the SATs results are used by teachers. The grammar school where he works do use the SATs as well as other grammar schools (also not in the West-Midlands).

Going by what I know of KECHB and Sats, they don't seem to use the SATs. Ds1 started Y7 at a L5a in Maths and English. Recently, I wanted to know whether he was a L7a in Maths and he replied that he didn't know. He only knows that the Math Challenge is coming up and his maths teacher didn't want him to miss out on the MC Olympiad certificate by 2 marks, like he did last year! Perhaps other forms of assessment like the Maths Challenge are more highly regarded and taken more seriously by the staff at KECHB??

But also, as stated in KECHB's newsletter last year, Mr Roden is currently developing a 'tracking system' for the progress of his students. The whole system of school funding depends upon student progress from KS2-KS4 and thereafter, KS4-KS5. For this purpose, Sats are used. Perhaps one of the reasons why tracking may not be used in KECHB is because their intake is within the top five percentile of ability and therefore streaming doesn't occur in KS3.

Regarding post L5 at primary: I was also under the impression that once pupils hit level 5, they are not pushed any further and so therefore, Y6 is a bore. But actually, this doesn't have to be the case. Definitely speak to the teachers about it.

Although, I didn't talk to ds2's teachers about it (too preoccupied with the KE exams I suppose), I am extremely grateful to his current primary teacher and was surprised to learn during ds2's most recent parents meeting (I missed his first meeting :oops: ) that the teachers decided that in order to prevent a handful of the L5 students becoming bored, they've been doing KS3 Maths for two terms now and he is now at a level 7b. :) His school isn't regarded as academically good but I'm lucky he's got a great teacher (also an ex-student from KECHG).



Last edited by DIY Mum on Sat May 07, 2011 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 10:40 pm 
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Please, may I ask if the practising SAT English papers are a good practise for 11+ preparation :?: Or is the level far too low as it is the case for the maths papers?

I do understand that there are not lay out question in 11+ exam but there are retrieval and inference questions, so it could be seen as an English practise... :)


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