Dilemma:KECH vs KES

[Stevehopkins]

There are 3 classes in each year with 31 boys in each class. Workload is variable in the first year, some days upto an hour or so and on other nights very little.

There are assignments set at random intervals as well as the odd test once a term, these are used to generate termly reports.

All kinds of extra activities are laid on at lunchtime and after school, badminton, table tennis, cricket, chemistry club at lunch time, debating. Check the web site for full list,

Trip to stay with French family later this term in year 7 to help with French, spelling competition at Aston uni, rugby etc...

Assume more frills at KES, my DS is not a frilly sort.

More studious than anything else at school, likes to muck about when at home.

Hope this helps, KECHB rules OK?

[mike1880]

I have one in Y9 at CHB and one in Y7 (sorry, Thirds) at KEHS. Extracurricular provision is roughly the same in both, I would say. CHB sends out an "extracurricular activities report" once a year to show what your child's been doing (sod all, in our son's case ), it runs to about 4 pages of opportunities for sport, music, hobbies, etc., etc. Trips include the Y7 French trip mentioned (but that's first come, first served - only places for about half the year), Y8 adventure holiday in Wales, the usual skiing trips, exchange visits, numerous other trips. I imagine (but don't know) that there might be more proactive encouragement to participate at KES, but I don't think there would be vastly more opportunities other than CCF.

The main differences are I think (a) class size of 31 at CHB as mentioned (parents evenings are a scrum) - although they drop to about 22-24 for GCSE (not sure what they do when they end up with more than the 93 PAN - they've had as many as 108 some years) and (b) being a state school, they follow the national curriculum while KEHS, as you'll be aware, has a much more creative approach to the timetable and I believe KES is similar (e.g. the much loved Friday afternoon...). So I suspect KES would feel more relaxed although I doubt there's really much difference in workload.

Homework: CHB start the way they mean to go on (3-4 subjects per night pretty much from day 1, reckoned to be do-able in 20 mins each but that depends very much on the child and their approach to each subject) which was a shock for our state primary boy. I think he gets less in Y9 than he did in Y7 but may just be better at getting it done. It includes revising for the rather frequent assessments (e.g. RS this week, German next week in our case) and for weekly verb/vocab tests in languages. The pace is brisk, but that's to be expected when you consider the overall ability level - anyone thought to be struggling with a subject is given extra mentoring sessions at lunchtimes. CHB have the same approach to GCSEs as KES and KEHS - they aim for grades, not numbers, and take 11 GCSEs (10 at KES I believe - both publish very detailed exam results on their web sites so you can work out for yourself which ones they take).

If money was no object (and if he'd actually passed, and if they didn't do IB) I'd incline towards KES, but I don't feel he's in any way putting up with second best by being at CHB (and since money IS a factor I'm glad I'm not paying for him to participate as little as he does ).

Mike

[Helena]

Thanks Mike1880. I was unaware of these lunchtime mentoring sessions!

KES give the impression of being more proactive, trying to get the best out of every boy. I'm not sure whether or not this is really the case or is it simply clever advertising? Both my boys are the sort that need a bit of "encouragement". I feel that this would be given at KES where CHB (in my experience) just leaves them to it.

Helena

[Stevehopkins]

Would one be right in assuming more of the cream ends up at KECHB than KES

In the class, DS can already spot the stragglers, possibly the ones with additional tutoring just to get in...

[BaccHus25]

Would one be right in assuming more of the cream ends up at KECHB than KES

In the class, DS can already spot the stragglers, possibly the ones with additional tutoring just to get in...

Not true at all, If KES really really want talented boy then they would offer him Scholarship & AP. That could mean %100 free education for so called "Cream" boys.
I know which one I would go for.

[mike1880]

Would one be right in assuming more of the cream ends up at KECHB than KES

In the class, DS can already spot the stragglers, possibly the ones with additional tutoring just to get in...

I would hazard a guess that the overall level of ability is marginally higher at CHB, but don't underestimate how selective KES is.

I don't think anyone will get into CHB on the back of intensive tutoring. They take approx the top 10% of ability (e.g. when our son did Junior Maths Challenge in Y7 about half the year group got gold certificates and most of the rest got silver), you can't tutor someone up to that standard no matter what tutors might tell you. However, some boys might struggle with the pace to begin with if they're used to a primary going along at the pace of the slowest, some might lose confidence due to being middle/bottom of the group when they're used to being the cleverest in their primary, some are much slow to mature and frankly aren't really ready for secondary school, etc., etc. Look at their GCSE/A-level results: there aren't any boys there who don't deserve to be. Get a sense of perspective: "struggling" at CHB means someone is "only" performing at the standard you'd expect in the top stream of a non-selective school.

Mike

[succeed]

Would one be right in assuming more of the cream ends up at KECHB than KES

In the class, DS can already spot the stragglers, possibly the ones with additional tutoring just to get in...

Mike 1660 - ' I would hazard a guess that the overall level of ability is marginally higher at CHB, but don't underestimate how selective KES is.'

I 'm not sure there is any real basis for this assumption at all. From my son's class of 24 boys at KES, 11 of them were also offered places at CHB.(my ds being one of them). I suspect, if anything, KES is able to capture more of the very able/gifted all rounders, as opposed to the robustly able mathematical thinkers that CHB will attract.

On a slightly different, but related topic, I recall the words of my son's excellent primary school teacher, of whom we sought advice before pursuing with the 11plus route. (I might add,she was very supportive of selective education and indeed was a product of it herself.) She basically said the most reliable factor in determining the outcome of the 11plus was to look at where the boy / girl was in terms of mathematical ability. She said she had never known(in her 10 year experience) a child be successful unless they were on the top two tables of the top set in maths (this was a 3 class entry primary school) She had observed that the 11 plus failed to test for creativity , and many of her most able English pupils would not get a place if their maths was 'average' or just above average) . She saw this as a great flaw of the 11 plus as she felt it only tested for logical thinking.
She also noted that many of the boys who went onto Camp Hill struggled with English or English related subjects. This had been a source of angst for English teachers at Camp Hill who had met up with local primary school teachers on several occasions to establish the cause of the anomaly.
I suspect this is why some extra weighting has been placed on English in recent years, however, due to the nature of the questions (synonyms blah, blah) coupled with the multiple choice format, I also suspect the test is still veering towards logical thinkers who, in many cases, have been well prepped to deal with the English section. There is certainly no attempt to identify 'creative' thinkers .
KES, on the other hand, applies equal weighting to both types of intelligence and seeks to find the most able, talented and rounded pupils in the city and beyond, if necessary.

Don't get me wrong - I have full respect for the level of intelligence required to gain entry at CHB, but to assume that they have a more able cohort is something of a unproven fallacy.

[Stevehopkins]

Horses or courses as always...

[succeed]

Just to add, I suspect the basis for the assumption that CHB has a brighter cohort, comes from the assumption that KES has to take on a lot of 'thick, rich kids to make up the numbers '. I can assure you, we have not found this to be the case.

[hermanmunster]

Just to add, I suspect the basis for the assumption that CHB has a brighter cohort, comes from the assumption that KES has to take on a lot of 'thick, rich kids to make up the numbers '. I can assure you, we have not found this to be the case.

Am quite sure that this is the case.

Why, decades ago the GS were full of kids who couldn't get into KEHS/KES (pre 1974 when it was more or less free)!!!

@SteveHopkins Horse for courses. And there was me thinking your english had got so much better over the last few days!!! Must be the Harpenden air.