100%??

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confusedmom

Post by confusedmom »

Dear FM -thanks very sensible but hey who said we would be sensible when our children are concerned!
Out of interest if you had a choice which would you pick 5 ways or wolverhampton girls high ??? I'm thinking of leaving the choice of which she wants as first choice when we've been for a visit but it's just others views of the subject that are interesting -thanks again ---- the voice of reason :)
KenR
Posts: 1506
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:12 pm
Location: Birmingham

Post by KenR »

Hi FM and Confusedmum

It's certainly true about being able to make a mess of some question type and still get through.

My son did that with the synonyms in the VR paper a couple of years ago but the low score in this section was compensated by very high scores in the Numerical and NVR sections.

I'm not sure if you have been reading through the archives, but I did obtain a full set of the Standardised Scores and raw score table for the KE exam held in Nov 2004. The format is virtually the same as the exam last last year.

The highest maximum pass score for any of the KE Grammars is about 347, which was for Camp Hill Boys a few years ago. This is equivalent to 3 x 116 scores on each of the papers.

So I looked up in the tables of raw scores what a standardised score of 116 was equivalent to for a child of my son's age in Nov (10.85 years).

I was amazed to find out that the raw scores were 67/100 for Verbal, 46/82 for numerical and 52/70 for Non Verbal respectively. This is way lower that the normal pass marks you would expect to require for something like an NFER based exam and nowhere near the fantasy 90% claims by many parents.

If you take the Maths/Numerical Paper for instance, the 116 'pass mark' is only 56%!! - and don't forget that this is to achieve a pass mark for most difficult KE school - the other are somewhat lower.

To confusedmum, I'm driving my son and a number of year 8 children to 5-ways for the open day tomorrow. Year 8's do a lot of the parental escorting on open days. I will probably wander around again myself. They have a brand new 6th form centre that just opened - so I'll take a look around there.

The main difference your daughter will notice of course is that 5-ways is co-ed. The ratio of girls to boys is about 40:60 (mainly because there are more KE girls school places in birmingham). Most girls are relaxed about that, but some that come from a single sex primary or prep are a little worried by it. The main difference that we have noticed with 5-ways compared to some of the other grammars around the West Midlands is that the school is very friendly doesn't seem to attract the fiercely competitive elements that some of the other schools attract.

best of luck
confusedmom

Post by confusedmom »

Dear Kenr -many many thanks for your reply -we are going on saturday morning as have been told that Friday nights are always jam packed.Went last year -this was when my daughter thought that a girls only school was the way to go - now being a whole year wiser she found the some aspects of 5 ways more appealing - I have to say a big thank-you to fm and you for your help - this raw score buisness makes my head ache but once again explained beautifully :P
It is nice to find out that these 100% HAVE to come from parents who see their children as "perfect".... I just pure and simply love mine and wish them the very best of head starts and what ever will be will be BUT ....tips are still really welcome - thank you once again both of you its nice to know that their are some really truly nice people still OUT THERE ! :lol:
fm

Post by fm »

Dear Confused Mum,

How weird. We had exactly this choice--Wolverhampton vs Five Ways with my elder child. In those days there were 2 different applicaton forms so you were offered both. I wanted the girls' school, daughter and husband wanted Five Ways, so latter was chosen. After some initial settling problems and new friendship forming (which is the same everywhere) she came to love Five Ways. She did not, however, do particularly well there despite us being continuously advised how bright she was. Personally I think that was down to her and her idleness rather that the school--which leads me on to my next piece of advice. Don't listen to other people's opinions because all they are giving you is their own or their friend's experience of a school and very few parents will admit their child rather than the school is the problem. To be honest, it took me long enough to face this fact.
Do ask at Five Ways what the proportion of boys to girls is because it was lower than Kenr is quoting for a long time. Don't ask teachers because they fudge the issue--ask the children. Essentially it was a boys' school which let a few girls in. Also they don't always spread them out evenly. My daughter had 4 girls in hers while another class had 12--think there was some secret streaming going on there.
Socially the girls who do well at Five Ways are the feisty girls who can give as good as they get.
I'm currently having the debate of which is the right school for youngest (who wants Five Ways) but, as my husband says, she'd be lucky to go to any of them--they are all good schools.
KenR
Posts: 1506
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:12 pm
Location: Birmingham

Post by KenR »

Hi Confusedmum and fm,

I can clarify a few points about 5-ways.

The class allocation is interesting; they don't stream but what they do try to ensure that pupils from the same primary school are in different classes. The rationale is to try to ensure that everyone starts from the same position of having to make new friends.

I have found out since that they allocate pupils to classes on a rotational basis starting with the best performing pupil in the exam. They then adjust to try to ensure the criteria above is met.

It is worthwhile asking the head or one of the deputies what the Girl:Boy ratio is now. It's true that some years ago it was skewed towards boys, but this has improved significantly since then. The head is quite pleased about the trend. I know that in 2004 there were 111 boys and only 43 girls.

One thing you should always ask all schools when you visit on open days is what the criteria is for being allowed to stay on into the 6th form. Many schools are being distinctly rigorous these days if the pupil doesn't get x number of A's or A* at GCSE.
fm

Post by fm »

Dear Kenr,

Schools have a habit of applying one criterion to internal sixth form candidates and another to external. One of my daughter's friends, three years ago, was allowed to remain at Five Ways despite having only 5 'B' s (his best results). Externals are asked for much more. Five Ways appear to be more tolerant about allowing their long-term children the benefit of the doubt after GCSE'S. Contrastingly Handsworth Girls will dump their poor performers at GCSE and even not allow children to pursue A2's if their AS is mediocre despite the fact they can recover this with resits.

As to number of girls at Five Ways, I enquired last year when I visited and the issue was either fudged or the truth was massaged. When I directly asked girls in the canteen, two girls from different classes told me there were only five girls in each of their classes. One of my pupils who has gone this year quoted the same five although another girl from our primary has quoted 10 so they still seem to be unevenly distributed.

On a more positive note at least five of my more able girls pupils this year want Five Ways. There's a real bandwagon going at our local primary for it, as people begin to ignore the league table/exam statistics and go for the 'feel' of the school.

My own experience has been that girls at Five Ways tend to be less boy mad than at the single sex schools. Having boys as friends and round them all day seems to make them less obsessed.
solimum
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:09 pm
Location: Solihull, West Midlands

6th form

Post by solimum »

Schools have a habit of applying one criterion to internal sixth form candidates and another to external
At Camp Hill Boys the criteria are the same for internal & external, but places are only offered to external candidates if there is space in a particular subject one the internal candidates have chosen their options. Incidentally as there is no 16+ to join the 6th form (based on an informal interview and predicted GCSE results) it seems a far less traumatic process than most people on this site have to go through....

Another point re the single gender issue: I know both boys and girls who have joined the Camp Hill schools for the 6th form from a mixed comprehensive, and have impressed some of the pre-existing pupils by their relaxed approach to friends of the opposite gender when meeting in the shared 6th form block...
Guest

Post by Guest »

:P Dear Kenr and FM -thank you AGAIN very helpful
Guest

Five Ways

Post by Guest »

KenR wrote: One thing you should always ask all schools when you visit on open days is what the criteria is for being allowed to stay on into the 6th form. Many schools are being distinctly rigorous these days if the pupil doesn't get x number of A's or A* at GCSE.
My son was at Five Ways, and I can confirm that they are remarkably lenient about existing pupils qualifying for the Sixth Form. My son was a lazy creature, the teachers were always on his back, but even he was shocked at his bad GCSE results. :oops: He didn't reach the minimum standard for the Sixth Form (and this was much less stringent at Five Ways than at most other selective schools) but he was allowed back on certain conditions, which to his credit he did manage to comply with. I was very grateful to the Headmaster for taking a risk with him. I think it is quite right that schools should look after the pupils they have had since Year 7, even when their poor performance is the result of not heeding the advice of the school.

As far as the boy-girl ratio is concerned, he was in a year group where they were much more evenly split than in some years. I am sure the school would like 50-50, but this is largely down to parents who won't let their daughters go to a mixed school. The girls at Five Ways do seem to be well able to stand up for themselves. I think it is a fantastic school with amazing facilities. They also have a wonderful bus service at start and end of day. :D
ah
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:55 pm

Post by ah »

To fm,

tried to reply to your email but it has come back to me, maybe an error in the email address???

ah
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