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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:18 pm
Posts: 35
Your thoughts and opinions on this interesting article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24868610

In this article, Rachel (not her real name) claims that, “all the children who practised the tests more frequently did better, irrespective of their skills. This just shows that the 11-plus can be taught.”

also have look at this article on "End culture of 11-plus test coaching, grammars urged": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24850139


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:59 pm 
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It wasn't a CEM test was it?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:53 pm 
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sbarnes wrote:
It wasn't a CEM test was it?

The article says they're from Watford, so would that be Herts?

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 12:06 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Everyone is so terribly exercised by grammar school education/selection at the moment.

Does anyone have a fairer suggestion?

Perhaps we should admit children into schools by distance alone, so that their chances of a good education depend essentially on their parents' ability to buy/rent a home in a desirable school catchment?

Or maybe we should segregate children by faith, so that a baptism certificate or regular flower arranging for the local church can ensure that your child receives a good education?

Or what about paying for a private education - a figure which, at over £1000 a month, is well beyond the reach of even reasonably well-off families?

It is all very well to imagine a wonderful system of super schools in every locality for all children, but that dream exists in utopia, not reality, I am afraid.
Yes, something is not right with the UK education system; we were 22nd out of 24 developed/rich countries to my recollection, in literacy and mathematics tests. The new generation of adults have poorer literacy skills than those over 65. I am not sure that the relatively few grammar schools are really to blame for that, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Location: Reading
Of course if all schools were good and you felt your child would do well regardless, these issues would all but disappear. Some may prefer one school's ethos over another, but in general must would be happy with the nearest school.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
um wrote:
Or maybe we should segregate children by faith, so that a baptism certificate or regular flower arranging for the local church can ensure that your child receives a good education?


The Archbishop of Canterbury did suggest this week that C of E schools at least might give that one up; can't see it catching on, though, myself.

Funnily enough, until a year or so ago we might well have been able to get our atheist DC into faith schools on the grounds of being known to a minister of religion and yours truly being a regular with the Sunday morning teapot - I often wonder whether our Scouts church parade was cut from monthly to "once in a blue moon" because some Scout parents had tried that one :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:11 pm 
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The Hsdmonean Jewish schools in London are supposed to be the best non selective secondary schools in the country, but likewise you do need a letter from a rabbi.

Perhaps rather than encouraging segregation, either academic or religious, which is seemingly the order of the day, we should be looking at why these schools are successful and replicating them nationwide, creating model schools, a bit like the model farms of the 1800's.

I have never understood why religious schools are more successful and more popular than normal schools, and personally see no place in the classroom for religion. Near to us a Muslim school has recently opened, this has meant that free bus travel to the local grammar and normal upper will soon not be available, as there is an alternative school for local residents near by. So kids are being bussed to the Muslim school in one direction, and bussed past it from the other direction, at a cost to parents of £500 per year if you cannot afford the buses then your choices are limited again, so it is hardly fair for one and all. At what stage does all this choice we have, paid for and subsidised by the national kitty, just become an uneconomical farce?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 12:06 pm
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Location: Birmingham
We would not accept segregation by religion in any other public service, would we?
Imagine going to a hospital and being told that it was only admitting Catholics, or calling the fire service and being told they were only for Muslims?

I understand why people choose religious schools; because there are certainly schools out there that will have little regard for a child's faith needs and this can be distressing and alienating for the children and parents. But I would hope that the solution is for all our schools to become more inclusive, rather than running away from the problem into entirely segregated schools.

On the way to my dc's primary school, I drive past two other primaries directly. One is a Catholic school - and although it is in a very multicultural area, every single child there appears to be white (and presumably Catholic). Two streets away is another primary - which is primarily Asian. I don't know why, but it makes me sad every time I see this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Quote:
Does anyone have a fairer suggestion?


Of course we could simply have a national lottery for places, but then of course someone would think about treating the offers as commodities and start trading them on the stock market or eBay :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:32 pm 
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The PIAAC tests you refer to um do not draw any conclusions whatsoever about schooling - all that is press (and Govean) interpretation. In fact the results show that firstly adults lose skills at a faster rate post-16 in England than elsewhere by doing low-skilled jobs which don't require literacy and numeracy to be improved or even maintained; and secondly that the poorer you are, the worse you do in these tests and the spread and effect of that in England is worse than elsewhere. (As it is in pre-16 education too).
um wrote:
We would not accept segregation by religion in any other public service, would we?.
Nor indeed by intelligence.


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