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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Well we got through it, but unlike the Queen Mary, it has been so much more stressful for some reason. One poor girl at Handsworth put all her answers on the question paper and did not know how to use the answer grid. Mine was at the other end of the spectrum sitting there wasting valuable seconds making sure boxes were fully shaded in (despite repeated exhortations from parents to give herself time to just guess any that she had not the time to do in the last minute of each section)....................arrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I have spoken to several parents over the past few days. Many kids were simply not expecting the speed element. My DC very frustrated as her tutor said boxes had to be fully coloured in, thus she spent time making sure of that, losing the bigger picture that its imperative to get through and then check. That said many kids seemed to have missed questions, with only one I know having completed all. As her elder sibling got high 240's last year, it seems pretty clear that the tutor knows CEM and the need for speed.

In contrast to this forum, most of the parents that did both (that I have spoken to) are reporting that their kids believe King Edward was harder than the Queen Mary. I suspect that this might well be down to jaded memories of July 1st. But my daughter in contrast is still adamant that the questions were easier. At the same time she thinks she has flunked it due to missing questions. She says she did fully complete maths ones and check them. We have always learned to factor in a mistake / error rate of at least 10% - so combing that with missed questions, gives a pretty solid basis for believing that she could not have got a positive result.

My question is this - has anyone got any sense of how many questions can be missed in total, and still have any realistic chance of passing? The invigilator and the CD make a big deal of telling kids that it does not matter if they do not answer all the questions in a section, but speed must be key as well as accuracy i.e. not just simply guessing.

Other than that I am am having a glass of Rose' - we have at least the minor consolation that she got a medal for doing well on a recent maths tournament. You can imagine how down in the dumps we are. She is really frustrated and says she thinks if she had better technique, she would have felt a lot better about her chances.

What do people think? Were just going to put it down to experience and let plan B and C play out


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:27 am
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Petitpois wrote:
Well we got through it, but unlike the Queen Mary, it has been so much more stressful for some reason. One poor girl at Handsworth put all her answers on the question paper and did not know how to use the answer grid. Mine was at the other end of the spectrum sitting there wasting valuable seconds making sure boxes were fully shaded in (despite repeated exhortations from parents to give herself time to just guess any that she had not the time to do in the last minute of each section)....................arrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I have spoken to several parents over the past few days. Many kids were simply not expecting the speed element. My DC very frustrated as her tutor said boxes had to be fully coloured in, thus she spent time making sure of that, losing the bigger picture that its imperative to get through and then check. That said many kids seemed to have missed questions, with only one I know having completed all. As her elder sibling got high 240's last year, it seems pretty clear that the tutor knows CEM and the need for speed.

In contrast to this forum, most of the parents that did both (that I have spoken to) are reporting that their kids believe King Edward was harder than the Queen Mary. I suspect that this might well be down to jaded memories of July 1st. But my daughter in contrast is still adamant that the questions were easier. At the same time she thinks she has flunked it due to missing questions. She says she did fully complete maths ones and check them. We have always learned to factor in a mistake / error rate of at least 10% - so combing that with missed questions, gives a pretty solid basis for believing that she could not have got a positive result.

My question is this - has anyone got any sense of how many questions can be missed in total, and still have any realistic chance of passing? The invigilator and the CD make a big deal of telling kids that it does not matter if they do not answer all the questions in a section, but speed must be key as well as accuracy i.e. not just simply guessing.

Other than that I am am having a glass of Rose' - we have at least the minor consolation that she got a medal for doing well on a recent maths tournament. You can imagine how down in the dumps we are. She is really frustrated and says she thinks if she had better technique, she would have felt a lot better about her chances.

What do people think? Were just going to put it down to experience and let plan B and C play out


My dd said she found KE harder than QM. She missed some questions and guessed some. Actually, the first thing that she said when she came out was she only remembered at the end of the paper she was meant to make sure she leaves no gaps on multiple choice questions. She just forgot under strwss and pressure. It's out of our hands now, we can speculate all we like.

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So if you tell me everything then I shall understand,
But rapid streams of words cannot compete with deed of hand[...]"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:00 pm 
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I must admit that the nearest any of our household has got to a CEM paper was a couple of years ago when DS2 did the familiarisation paper on the Bexley website for fun one dull day in the summer holidays, but wrt how to shade the boxes (and where to put your answers), I thought there were one or two practice questions built into the exam? I wonder whether the child who wrote hers entirely in the wrong place had been told by someone that she would be putting the answers 'in a booklet' and despite instructions to the contrary on the day, did just that, only in the wrong one?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Petitpois wrote:
My question is this - has anyone got any sense of how many questions can be missed in total, and still have any realistic chance of passing? The invigilator and the CD make a big deal of telling kids that it does not matter if they do not answer all the questions in a section, but speed must be key as well as accuracy i.e. not just simply guessing.


It really depends on how well she did on the questions she completed. It's quite common for children to miss pages and still gain a place.

Do remember if your daughter missed some, other children might have also done the same. It's not really about what she scores in terms of raw marks, but her score as compared to other children taking the test.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Location: Herts
This is so sad as these are just admin issues and nothing to do with the ability of the student to answer the questions.

This post alone is why I recommend parents sign their students up for mocks so they at least know how to present their answers. It is no good at all knowing the answer if you put it in a place where it will not be marked.

I heard just today of a top table student who got out of sync with her answers and so rubbed them all out and then did not have time to put them all back in the correct place.

11 plus papers with Multiple choice answer sheets are available in any good bookshop. Waterstones have a buy one get it one half price on all their 11 plus packs at the moment.

The chances of passing will of course depend on all the other students who sat and how well they did.

Did you do any mocks with your tutor? DG


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:14 am
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We've also started to get some more feedback with dc this time saying the brum test was hard or tough. A lot of missed qs and guesses.
At the end of the day, as it usually pans out with these types of things, those who you would expect to gain a GS place will do on the whole.
All this talk about easy tests on this forum have dps who have either posted or lurked on this forum for a while and gained some useful info. This way they have a notable advantage to hundreds and hundreds who have never been on this forum and probably not as knowledgable with the cem requirements without meaning to patronise.
On the whole over the years most posters' dcs have gained a GS place.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:47 pm 
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I take issue with a test that is designed to be answered in a seperate booklet also enabling a DC to answer in the question booklet. A couple of times during practice my DC inadvertantly did this. Still can't be sure he hasn't done it in the actual test. Sometimes no matter how much you practice simple errors will be made.

I agree this should be a test to find out DC academic ability not necessarily their common-sense.

Crossed posts with above.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:44 am
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Thanks for the views. People on this forum generally will be a self selecting sample. Child next door aspire to be a banker, but Mum, could not give a kipper. Guy a few doors up started his kid at Camp Hill Boys. I probably should have familiarised myself more with the forum earlier. Do I think 11 plus is a measure of ability? Generally no, but as other has mentioned you do what you gotta to to get them through.

I just wish I could have had a clearer guidance (earlier) about what levels were required. My daughter was having a massive go because we have covered off areas like area of a semi circle using PI*R2. Is it required no. Did we waste valuable time, when we should have just got the levels right and then turned her into a speed merchant. YES. YES. YES.

For this reason and this reason alone, I do not believe these tests are in anyway tutor proof. Indeed, once you clock what is required, you can do that. We have a detailed record of how our DD did at each stage in various placement tests etc, so we will just have to implement, lessons learned with number 2.

See my summary of lessons learned - separate thread.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:14 am
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Petitpois wrote:
Well we got through it, but unlike the Queen Mary, it has been so much more stressful for some reason. One poor girl at Handsworth put all her answers on the question paper and did not know how to use the answer grid. Mine was at the other end of the spectrum sitting there wasting valuable seconds making sure boxes were fully shaded in (despite repeated exhortations from parents to give herself time to just guess any that she had not the time to do in the last minute of each section)....................arrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I have spoken to several parents over the past few days. Many kids were simply not expecting the speed element. My DC very frustrated as her tutor said boxes had to be fully coloured in, thus she spent time making sure of that, losing the bigger picture that its imperative to get through and then check. That said many kids seemed to have missed questions, with only one I know having completed all. As her elder sibling got high 240's last year, it seems pretty clear that the tutor knows CEM and the need for speed.

In contrast to this forum, most of the parents that did both (that I have spoken to) are reporting that their kids believe King Edward was harder than the Queen Mary. I suspect that this might well be down to jaded memories of July 1st. But my daughter in contrast is still adamant that the questions were easier. At the same time she thinks she has flunked it due to missing questions. She says she did fully complete maths ones and check them. We have always learned to factor in a mistake / error rate of at least 10% - so combing that with missed questions, gives a pretty solid basis for believing that she could not have got a positive result.

My question is this - has anyone got any sense of how many questions can be missed in total, and still have any realistic chance of passing? The invigilator and the CD make a big deal of telling kids that it does not matter if they do not answer all the questions in a section, but speed must be key as well as accuracy i.e. not just simply guessing.

Other than that I am am having a glass of Rose' - we have at least the minor consolation that she got a medal for doing well on a recent maths tournament. You can imagine how down in the dumps we are. She is really frustrated and says she thinks if she had better technique, she would have felt a lot better about her chances.

What do people think? Were just going to put it down to experience and let plan B and C play out

I mentioned this elsewhere - my dd missed 28 questions in the brum test 3 years ago & still got 240+
So I would continue enjoying your Rose' & try not to let it get to you too much.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:56 pm 
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Sorry i am well beyond that, but will have the Rose. I just jotted down and abridged version of what the last 18 months have been like. (((Posted separately)))

Wish I could have found this forum earlier. Its been Lonely travelling for me and Mrs.

Thanks though will enjoy the glass of wine and chill out - and yes we are still in with a chance, as we don't know until every one else does.


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