King Edwards - 2015 CEM lessons learned

[kenyancowgirl]

CowGirl - The purpose of this forum is allow posters to express their views freely without people judging them

Actually, it isn't. It's to inform and assist. If it let people express their views freely, it would be inundated with political guff and all sorts of other rubbish. Unlike other forums, it is very carefully moderated, to ensure that the majority of the content on here is balanced and fair. The original post was not. When people post on here, they have to accept that other people will disagree with them - particularly when what they are saying is rude or offensive to others. MSD, i suggest you read the forum rules - I don't find everything offensive - but I will pull posters up if they are unfair, unbalanced or, frankly, factually incorrect. Unfortunately, at this time of year, when people are stressed, looking for evidence to support appeals, worrying about the hours they have put in and whether it is worth it, lots of hyperbole is made with little or no substance.

"Let me tell you both my sons attended a state school primary"

You can tell me whatever you want, as per you post, the fact remains that there are a lot of very good teachers out there - it is certainly NOT true that the majority are useless - Ofsted and continuous professional development, ensure that - and no, I am not here to "judge" people's grammar skills but, I do find it ironic on a post where someone is criticising the education their child has had and extolling the hours they have put in to correct it, that such an obvious grammatical error is made. We can all learn, throughout life, wouldn't you agree?

[nervousmom]

My children attended/attend a state faith school. It is a very good school, with good teachers and a good teaching ethos and we have no complaints about them or it.

However, when we first went down the GS path with eldest DS, it was from the advice of family members and not the school.

We were told from an early age how bright my DS was, but not one single teacher mentioned the possibility of the GS route for him. We mentioned it to his Y4 teacher and she was very enthusiastic and said he would be a perfect student for it. His Y5 teacher didn't seem interested.

There is never any mention of the 11+ at the school. It is purely down to the parents to follow this route, with no assistance from the school.

Crossed with KCG

[Yamin151]

I agree with KCG.

oP clearly has axe to grind. However, it is not the job of a state primary to use precious time to do extra lessons or work for a selective test that possibly only a minority of the class will take or get a high enough mark in. What about the rest of the class.? Those who might need extra help just to read and write?

Indies can give that support because they don't have to follow the same curriculum and they know their success as a private prep is measured in how many they get into GS or selective secondary indies.

Not all teachers are good, but I also agree that it is is often the way of approaching a teacher that dictates how the relationship will develop.

[um]

Interesting discussion.

I can see both sides of the story.

I've been fortunate to know and work with many state school teachers who are incredibly dedicated to their pupils and work very, very hard.
They do so in class sizes of 30+, some of whom will of course have special needs and/or behavioural problems and with increasing political inference in education.

I feel you have had a bad experience at your primary school.
I'll admit that I've had some absolutely awful experiences myself, but I try to stay positive by remembering and knowing the teachers who really are good
Do all primary school teachers know best? No. My ds1's teacher in Yr 5 told us that we should not apply for grammar at all. In fact she had him in all the bottom sets. He was recently blessed to get great GCSE grades at KECHB where he has been very happy and had very positive reports.

Ultimately I agree that as parents we have to try our best to ensure a well-rounded and excellent education for our children, rather than passively step back. I admit though that I passively have stepped back with the older three at grammar though as not only are they more independent, but the teachers and ethos general has been excellent.

Is it a level playing field? If you don't have money then it certainly isn't. That's what the PP places are about. I was told that the most shoplifted item from WH Smith in the city centre was 11 Plus books. If you go now you'll actually see security cameras in that particular area. I wish I could buy them for every desperate parent who couldn't afford them but that's how life is now...I know another mum who runs a food bank for desperate families and sees hungry, malnourished children every week. In fact I've also heard of teachers buying food for children from their own money, and even buying coats and shoes and washing children's clothes when the family cannot manage. Some are really special

I hope everything works out for your dc, Petitpois.

[MSD]

CowGirl
it is certainly NOT true that the majority are useless

Apart from getting offended every few minutes, you also seem to have issues with selective reading! Unfortunately I found majority of teachers in our local primary useless, not in the whole country, which you are making out to be!

I also found the CEM Birmingham test a lot easier and DUMBED DOWN! If you don't like my choice of word that's your problem not mine.

MSD

[booellesmum]

This is a message I sent to the PTFA representative earlier in the year, the minutes had mentioned Ofsted report where they had said reading was an area to be addressed with regards to children's progress:

Hi,
I always read the parent council minutes with interest, and after reading this months would just like to share with you my experience with regards to reading.
For reference my daughter is now in year 6.
When my daughter was in year 3 I became concerned that the reading scheme wasn't suiting her. She didn't enjoy reading the books and they were too easy for her. It became a battle to get her to do her school reading book, and then I couldn't get her to read anything more challenging to me because she felt she had done her reading for the day. She has always read other books, but I knew that she would be making mistakes in pronouncing words in the harder books she was reading and wouldn't understand some of the vocabulary. I wanted her reading them to me so we could address these issues, and talk about the content and themes of the books she was reading to improve her overall reading skills.
I discussed my concerns with her teacher who said that he couldn't change things and wasn't sure what reading level she should be on as she didn't read to him in school, he said I should speak to the classroom assistant who listened to the children read. I spoke to the classroom assitant. She said my daughter did read well but she couldn't change the reading level as those were set by the librarian, who rarely listened to the children read. I arranged to speak to the librarian on the phone. When I spoke to her she said that she had made a point of going to listen to my daughter read as she knew she would be speaking to me. She agreed my daughter read very well. However, she had to stay on the school reading scheme because that was school policy. I was told that the school would send all of the books for the level she was on home for her to read over the holidays so she could move up a level in September. The books never materialised and we had a lovely summer reading other books.
When she went up to year 4 I had the same conversation. Again I was told she had to stay on the reading scheme. After having the same battles and frustration at home I made a decision. I took her off the school reading scheme. Each week I read the book, told my daughter what it was about incase she was questioned, and then we got on with reading harder books and stretching her. This worked really well, her enthusiam noticably improved as did her reading and comprehension skills.
In year 5 her teacher listened to me and she was put on free reading.
Not being on the reading scheme has benefited her, this year she was entered for the level 6 reading and SPAG SATs.
I am not saying I disagree with the reading scheme. For some children I am sure it works very well. Children, however, are individuals and until we stop having a one size fits all system,start looking at what would be best for each individual child and listening to parents who want to work with the school, I fear nothing will improve.
Regards,

I also had problems getting teachers to acknowledge her spelling difficulties. For 3 years I was told she wasn't the worst in the class and that they could understand what she wrote. When I asked if her mistakes could all be corrected I was told they didn't like to correct all of them as it is discouraging. It was the same teacher in year 5 who agreed with me on reading that listened to me about spellings and started to correct all her mistakes. This really helped, although she still struggles.
My older daughter went to the same school and had different teachers. She was on free reading in year 2 and never looked back.
It really does depend on the teacher you get, and more importantly how much they listen to you and your concerns.
Incidently 11+ never mentioned at school ( don't think Headteacher agrees with it) and no congratulations forthcoming when got to GS - even away from other parents. DD1 was the only girl in her year to go to a GS and DD2 was I think one of 4.

[Petitpois]

Thanks UM for a balanced response. I am content that We did our best. We own the attempt and no one else is to blame, regardless of outcome (success or fail). That is my starting position.

For my next attempt with DD in year four I will learn the lessons. Bond placement tests will be happening shortly - any I am constantly looking for new ways to inspire the kids to read.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Final comment on this, Our 11+ attempt was fundamentally built on the school curriculum as the foundation. So its much more symbiotic than the thread suggests. Just be clear about what you do and don't get from whatever school you use as this will enable you to pursue a better plan and plug gaps better.

I am responsible for the kids success or failure, not the school, or her friends or anyone else.

cheers

[booellesmum]

Petitpois, I agree that we have to take ownership of it, BUT how kids get on is influenced by factors other than ourselves, and I truly believe there needs to be better communication and working together between school and parents in a lot( not all!) of cases.

[um]

Leaving our children in a school is a huge trust to give them. They're the most precious thing in the world to us and any loving parent wants to do their absolute best for their child - that would include a school that can care for them well and ensure they reach their full potential.

It's not a bad thing to want to make things better.

There are a lot of things that schools can make better, and the more people get involved, the faster this can hopefully happen.

We have every right to hold schools to account in the best way possible. Sometimes parents can be unreasonable in their demands, but on the other side of the coin, sometimes things are not right at all and that certainly seems to be the case for petitspois and boellesmum.

Regarding encouraging children to read, I think it would be wonderful if parents set up small book clubs in their homes for children and friends - they could have reading records and be really encouraged (perhaps with little prizes too) to read weekly and share their reviews of books. I've also been shocked that perfectly able children are still being sent home with Biff, Chip and Kipper books in Year 4!
A mum also recently confided that her children have never once brought home a book from school and she had no idea what 'level' they were on. The school is in Special Measures.

Here are some good reading lists to browse through:

http://www.lovereading4kids.co.uk/genre ... aders.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dulwichpreplondon.org/page/? ... 14&pid=211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.booktrust.org.uk/books/child ... lists/243/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[quasimodo]

Most children spend between 6 to 8 hours a day 5 days a week in their schools being educated by their teachers the rest of the time the children are in the care and control of their parents.It is in the home a significant impact probably the most impact is made.I find it amazing how some choose to look outward in seeking blame for the failings in their children.Teaching is like any profession there are good and bad teachers but we all go with our experiences.I have rarely come across a bad teacher but I have come across many who I would regard as bad parents and contribute by not doing anything or very little to the failings in their children.

I have read many contributions on these threads on the forum of things that have gone wrong with children who have taken the Birmingham consortium exams and yet I have also read threads on how to avoid many of the problems which occurred.Who is to blame for that? So when I hear comments like I found the majority of teachers in my child's primary school useless is that really true? I am not religious but I remember from the State primary school I attended where we had Biblical Teaching and Christian based morning assemblies being taught the following from the New Testament "let him without sin cast the first stone."I think many are now throwing stones.