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 Post subject: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:18 pm 
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Does anyone know if there is an official CEM line on comparability of results between two separate tests e.g Walsall and KE.


I am presuming their line is that the is no comparison at all and it is a straightforward measure of how the kids did on the day - end of ??

Is that right - is is normal every year for kids to bomb one and then nail the other (sorry for mixed metaphors here).

It is frequent or just something that is normal variability


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:08 pm
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Posted below info in another thread.

Just wanted to share the following nformation from someone I know before people start panicking and predicting KE scores based on Walsall scores.

Based on the stats I have, for every one that does bear a correlation to the KE result, I have another with a significant difference. Some of this is down to the different weighting but often it is down to the fact some children are more ready July than others and others, like my two 199s from Walsall last year (despite having maths/nvr as their best subjects) get a massive wake up call from that exam and go on to manage 216 an 221 in the KE exam. And one in reverse where Walsall was about 224 and KE 180 or something really low like that.

Yes, of course, it is nice if you have a good result. It means you have secured a great school. But, other than that, I would preach caution about treating it as pre-cursor to similar in the KE.

EDIT - For comparison with KE, the Walsall scores above have been averaged down to two subject areas. The score you will receive from Walsall consortium will be standardised 3 ways i.e 300+ for above average, and below 300 for under average scores.


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:31 pm 
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Yes but leaves a sour taste, because if this is about ability, then kids don't suddenly lose or gain massive amounts of innate ability of 8 weeks.

But this is not about innate ability it is about how well your child happens to run on one specific day either 1/7 or 12/9

So the bright label is a little misleading. All you can really say is that your child ran slower or faster then the average speed of the other kids on a given day. If they happen to have run very fast, then they will be offered a grammar school place in the said area.

I know you all know this, but I wanted to say it out loud as it helps frame discussion on the result tomorrow


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:44 am
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Petitpois wrote:
Yes but leaves a sour taste, because if this is about ability, then kids don't suddenly lose or gain massive amounts of innate ability of 8 weeks.

But this is not about innate ability it is about how well your child happens to run on one specific day either 1/7 or 12/9

So the bright label is a little misleading. All you can really say is that your child ran slower or faster then the average speed of the other kids on a given day. If they happen to have run very fast, then they will be offered a grammar school place in the said area.

I know you all know this, but I wanted to say it out loud as it helps frame discussion on the result tomorrow


Had 2 DDs go through this and that is exactly what I always told them. For Birmingham there is no pass or fail, you cannot fail the 11+.
It is purely on the day and so much depends on how the other children do compared to you.
Not getting a GS place does not make you any less smart than the day before the results came out.

I also stressed to them that DH and I went to GS and both have fairly average jobs. We have friends who went to comp who earn far more than us - it is not the be all and end all.


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:51 pm
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Location: Walsall
Since the QM results have come out for our DD , I do think the 11plus result is not the true reflection of a child's ability, our DD most probably hasn't secured a GS space by scoring 309, but in no way , shape or form is she less able than maybe some who may be offered a place at say 316 , as on test day a child may have gained a slightly higher mark due to guessing , luck or even happening to hear the specific word that day, I'm not bitter at all and honestly am pleased for all DC'c and their parents who have or will get the desired results , I know our DD will flourish where ever she goes and the invaluable time and effort that we have invested in her won't have been wasted in vain, so this is for all parents whose results may not be what they were hoping for...don't worry your child is still the best!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:58 pm 
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Spot on


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:14 am
Posts: 1186
saraakash wrote:
Since the QM results have come out for our DD , I do think the 11plus result is not the true reflection of a child's ability, our DD most probably hasn't secured a GS space by scoring 309, but in no way , shape or form is she less able than maybe some who may be offered a place at say 316 , as on test day a child may have gained a slightly higher mark due to guessing , luck or even happening to hear the specific word that day, I'm not bitter at all and honestly am pleased for all DC'c and their parents who have or will get the desired results , I know our DD will flourish where ever she goes and the invaluable time and effort that we have invested in her won't have been wasted in vain, so this is for all parents whose results may not be what they were hoping for...don't worry your child is still the best!!!

sounds like a genuine, heartfelt post - rare in the 11+ 'game' - all the best for you dd sk.


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1300
Location: Birmingham
Petitpois wrote:
Does anyone know if there is an official CEM line on comparability of results between two separate tests e.g Walsall and KE.


I am presuming their line is that the is no comparison at all and it is a straightforward measure of how the kids did on the day - end of ??

Is that right - is is normal every year for kids to bomb one and then nail the other (sorry for mixed metaphors here).

It is frequent or just something that is normal variability


The standard measure of internal consistency (reliability) for tests is Cronbach's Alpha - this is used extensively by Durham CEM to benchmark test

http://www.cem.org/attachments/conferences/Birmingham%202012/Primary/Intro%20to%20CEM%20primary%20systems.ppt

http://www.cem.org/blog/would-you-let-this-test-into-your-classroom/


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:08 pm
Posts: 1239
KenR - The link doesn't seem to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Percentile Swings
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1300
Location: Birmingham
try again - just updated


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