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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:38 am
Posts: 1043
Location: West Midlands / warks border
The letter received with the Birmingham results detailed the cut off scores for each school for the last 3 years, but it is in fact misleading.

Usually more places are offered than there actually is, because the FO know that a certain percentage are declined.

However, in 2015 each school only offered the exact Published Admissions Number (PAN) which means that the initial scores on offers day looked like they had increased dramatically.

Large numbers of places were offered off the waiting lists and in fact the last scores were very similar to last year.

For example

CHB on offers days was 243 - 43 places offered from waiting list - final score 236

See figures below, posted by UM


CUT OFF SCORES 2015

For 2015 entry the score of the last child to gain entry to each of the Grammar Schools in Birmingham as of 1st March 2015 is listed below:

Bishop Vesey's Grammar School 219 (pupil premium not applicable)
Handsworth Grammar School 207 (pupil premium not applicable)
King Edward VI Aston School 224 (207 pupil premium)
King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Boys 243 (219 pupil premium)
King Edward VI Five Ways School 232 (206 pupil premium)
King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Girls 231 (210 pupil premium)
King Edward VI Handsworth School for Girls 219 (209 pupil premium)
Sutton Coldfield Grammar School for Girls 215 (pupil premium not applicable)

The KE schools usually 'over'offer' to allow for the fact that some pupils will choose to attend Independent Schools.

However in 2015, they did not over-offer due to the wish to keep the places offered at (where possible) 20% Pupil premium pupils.
Therefore, following offer day, last-scores in dropped more quickly than had previously been the case.

From information provided by parents, we understand that the following scores were offered (for non-pupil premium children) from the waiting lists.
Not all children on these scores may have been offered a place (as distance criteria is used where children have the same score).
Lower scores than these may have been offered - but these scores were confirmed by parents:

Bishop Vesey's Grammar School 215
Handsworth Grammar School 204
King Edward VI Aston School 218
King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Boys 236
King Edward VI Five Ways School 226
King Edward VI Camp Hill School for Girls 225
King Edward VI Handsworth School for Girls 216
Sutton Coldfield Grammar School for Girls 212


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:57 pm
Posts: 58
They use the offer day cut offs because they tell you what was definitely offered on March 1st. Yes these will drop but the drop varies from year to year and many of the figures quoted are parent reported therefore less reliable. If you took last into CHG in December you would have 219 which would be very misleading (then again this is just parent reported!!). However, you can pretty much assume at least 2 points less off waiting list. If they offer to pan again the figures won't change a lot for the reasons outlined on this forum many times.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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Nervousmom, you need to be a little cautious here. The cut off scores on offers day are based on information that is available to the school/council/FO and no-one else. They work out the cut off score, based on PAN, numbers of applications, scores achieved, numbers of PP places needed, numbers of expected rejections etc etc...a whole host of things that we laypersons can only guess at year on year.

As the rank scores in Warwickshire are consistent markers year after year, so the cut off scores for B'ham are their consistent markers, year after year.

Anything that happens after National Offers Day, from the waiting list is subject to change and variables too many to mention - and could, frankly, be described as "lucky". You are "lucky" if you get offered a place from the waiting list, or "unlucky" if you don't because it is so up in the air.

Someone may have got in from the waiting list in the December of Y7, with a pretty low score, but quoting that one individual as being the "last score in" isn't really a realistic picture. Whereas, the cut off score on offers day, helps give an indication of how likely a child's score would get offered a place, the following year.

Certainly, in an area like Birmingham where there are 6 choices on the CAF, a better explanation to parents that, if they are within touching distance of the advertised cut off point, and they really want that school, then it is worth putting it on their CAF and taking a punt, would be helpful!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:47 pm
Posts: 2604
You are right to be cautious however the scores being quoted off the waiting list for this years entry were as far as I can see were before children started at their respective schools.

This morning my dd was writing a farewell card for a girl in her class in year 7 at WGHS who is leaving to start at a London Grammar school after half term.I assume a new girl will be joining her class to make the complement of 29.In these circumstances children will be settled in at schools and reluctant to move and therefore the mark could fall dramatically on entrance for any new girl.At WGHS I know the last girl off the waiting list cannot be more than 2% below the mark from the offer on offers day.

In a similar vein my dds friend who is at KEHS said there were only 19 girls in her class and I think the complement should be 21 maybe 22.So there may be movement there.

_________________
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 488
I agree with the need to be cautious, but I think it really helps to know things can change.
I wish I had discovered this forum earlier as last year my DD2 was 2 points below cut off and I thought at 45th on wait list there would be no chance of getting in. If I had realised how much wait lists CAN move I would have phoned up every so often to check where she was and would have been more prepared for the offer.
Having said that it was so much easier when DD1 sat 11+ as you didn't get scores and didn't know what school you'd got until March. There was therefore no analysis over what school to put based on score, you just put what you wanted and hoped!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:38 am
Posts: 1043
Location: West Midlands / warks border
There is no harm in being cautious, on the other hand these figures have been collated by UM one of the forum moderators.

I see no problem in making people aware how much these lists and scores can change.

This could basically give a little hope to some of those who believed it was a lost cause.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 488
nervousmom wrote:
There is no harm in being cautious, on the other hand these figures have been collated by UM one of the forum moderators.

I see no problem in making people aware how much these lists and scores can change.

This could basically give a little hope to some of those who believed it was a lost cause.


+1.
Most definitely.


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