Still not decided

[JamesDean]

I thought that the post was about Stratford too. Sutton is SCGSG.

Yes, its Shottery to us locals, but is now known as SGGS ...

JD

[Petitpois]

May sun, if you have the score, take Camp Hill girls. We are talking degrees, but as long as the commute is okay CHG is the better school academically and for its class profile.

Think carefully before giving up a place at a more prestigious school. Many will disagree, but if that matters to you take it.

I have to disagree with that!
How is it better academically? Some years, KE Handsworth has scored better than CHG!
The fact is that they are both excellent academically.

I am perfectly happy with CHG - my dd attends. I chose it because we live nearby and her bothers are at CHB. If we lived in /near Handsworth to be frank I would have happily chosen KE Handsworth.
What is this thing about class profile? Do you mean rich families and poor families? In my experience, poorer families are far more interested in education and working hard!!!
I am also very happy that the 'class profile' is mixed and NOT just richer families (more mixed than the boys' school) and my daughter has a variety of friendships there from all (so-called ) classes.

Who mentioned KE Handsworth?? I thought I was comparing Sutton to CHG instead of Stratford. I have not seen Stratford, but I would personally would take a grammar outside of Birmingham, than one in if the commute was okay and they were equal.

Why I am not allowed to hold this class based view of the world? Have a look at all the class based indicators across independents and grammars and comprehensives and they are not equal. You get a choice based on a mixture of money and assessed ability. The middle and upper classes play that out fully to their advantage or we would have completely mixed schools.

When it comes to my individual choice in a system, where I don't have a great deal of leverage (though substantially more than lots of others), why is it wrong to try and get the best academic schools and the one that will impart the soft characteristics most likely to give DD a chance, in a very very quirky labour market.

Rather than me have to justify myself. Why is it that Russell Group universities take a disproportionate number of students from independent schools. Following on from that certain professions take a disproportionate number of entrants from Oxbridge and pretty much all the schools like to say in their brochures how many kids have gone on to Oxbridge?? Inequality is riven throughout the system

I don't make the world or the way it is, but it is not going to stop me trying.

It all does come down to your weltanschauung. I did not have the luxury of a good education or peer group. My advise is very personal, but take what you can get, and be ruthless in your choice's in respect of doing the best for your children.

[um]

I guess what I was trying to say is:

If you are taking into account class when choosing a primary school or a comprehensive secondary school, I do actually understand that.

But there is no need to take this into account when choosing a grammar school.
Whether a girl attends KECHG or KEH or Sutton Coldfield Girls', she will be surrounded by high-achieving and hard working peers, in an environment which has high behavioural and academic expectations. I cannot understand how anyone could choose between those three schools on ground of 'class'.

[quasimodo]

I simply don't understand this discussion about looking at schools on a class perspective as though such things for what they are worth are rigid social concepts.Its about as sensible as looking at schools with large numbers of children from the Indian subcontinent on a caste perspective particularly when they are the second or third generation children of immigrant parents.

[Petitpois]

I guess what I was trying to say is:

If you are taking into account class when choosing a primary school or a comprehensive secondary school, I do actually understand that.

But there is no need to take this into account when choosing a grammar school.
Whether a girl attends KECHG or KEH or Sutton Coldfield Girls', she will be surrounded by high-achieving and hard working peers, in an environment which has high behavioural and academic expectations. I cannot understand how anyone could choose between those three schools on ground of 'class'.

I get that perspective. I definitely agree with your characterisation of grammars.

I think we largely agree. The only difference is the range of characteristics we consider important and teh label we attached to convey that. You mention

- high achieving
- hard working
- behavioural expectations
- academic expectations

I would probably add

- self confidence
- leadership
- soft skills including networks
- social status and recognition

It is just too easy use a class label, but it is a good enough rough proxy.

I disagree with Quasimodo analogy, but if you don't believe that class is either real or relevant in Modern British society, then he has a point.