11 Plus Exams Forum

Well despite people being uncomfortable with the facts........ schooldash, have very usefully put together the following dashboard.

If you live in Sandwell there are 137 local authorities in England where on average your child will receive a better outcome in terms of GSCE's. I think this decisively negates the oft claimed nonsense, that many parents spout....... "they will do well wherever they go." Well NO NO NO they won't.

Wolverhampton is the second worst place in the England on average (149/150). There is only one place worse on average (not sure who that is).

Walsall comes in with a better but still derisory 141 out of 150

Well done to Birmingham for confounding me it is ranked 86th out of 150 in England.

So where does the superstar prize go in these parts. Well DUDLEY (YES DUDLEY).......... are ranked 37 out of 150. That is phenomenal, but I suppose not a huge surprise given the like of the Earls High and Windsor. Nevertheless, that looks like a pretty decent result (only 7 schools so looks at the stats), but I still think a pretty good outcome for GCSE results.


https://www.schooldash.com/maps.html?ar ... ours=WBlpe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Loads of slice and dice fun to be had

Petitpois wrote: I think this decisively negates the oft claimed nonsense, that many parents spout....... "they will do well wherever they go." Well NO NO NO they won't.

This is where I disagree with you.I just look at where my family friends and relatives from my generation went to schools having no choices in the process and where they are now and that tells me a child will do well wherever he or she goes provided they have the right family support and are driven themselves

is this data referring to the schools in the LEA or the addresses of the kids?

quasimodo wrote:

Petitpois wrote: I think this decisively negates the oft claimed nonsense, that many parents spout....... "they will do well wherever they go." Well NO NO NO they won't.

This is where I disagree with you.I just look at where my family friends and relatives from my generation went to schools having no choices in the process and where they are now and that tells me a child will do well wherever he or she goes provided they have the right family support and are driven themselves

Hi Quasi

There must not be enough parents providing the right sort of support in these local authorities. Some of the Southern LA's are just as economically deprived, but the averages are better for some reason.

Herman....The data is a combi of schools data and various reference datasets e.g. LA. Very wide ranging. Like the mapping so that you can see where you are, locally and nationally

worked example: Bristnall Hall school ref 139043

185 children enter the school of which:

43 Low Achievers (below level 4 in new money scaled score of 99 or below)
104 Middle Achievers (Level 4 or scaled score of 100)
39 High Achievers (Above Level 4 or scaled score of 105 or higher)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/scaled-scores" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So of this intake

Just 4 of the 43 low achievers managed 5 or more Gcse's
45 of the 104 middle achievers got 5 or more
28 out of the 39 high achievers got 5 more

It very very arguable that the 11 high achievers who did not get 5 GCSE's (had they been at a grammar would have done so), so I think this is a good argument to say they will not necessarily do well wherever they go.

In comparison 99% of kids going into a grammar will be high achievers, but 99% come out with 5 GCSE's which is remarkable. I don't think you can expect the same of Bristnall Hall for its low and middle achievers, but 99% of its high achievers should succeed, and surely the die cannot be fixed for such a high % of low achievers at such an early age.

Just 4 out of 43 low achievers. Is that really acceptable???

Petitpois wrote:

quasimodo wrote:

Petitpois wrote: I think this decisively negates the oft claimed nonsense, that many parents spout....... "they will do well wherever they go." Well NO NO NO they won't.

This is where I disagree with you.I just look at where my family friends and relatives from my generation went to schools having no choices in the process and where they are now and that tells me a child will do well wherever he or she goes provided they have the right family support and are driven themselves

Hi Quasi

There must not be enough parents providing the right sort of support in these local authorities. Some of the Southern LA's are just as economically deprived, but the averages are better for some reason.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34778514" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ity-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


There is clearly a problem with white working class males not achieving to their potential both in education and in the work enviroment.

The underachievement of pupils is complex and is due to some poorly managed schools, some incompetent teaching, the continued underfunding of education, the continued (often) unnecessary curriculum changes, lack of some parental support, the incredibly diificult situations some families live in, an increasingly lack of teachers in core subjects particularly in challenging school .... And so the list goes on.No underachievement should not be ignored but instead of digging for evidence to show it exists, the focus needs to be on what can be done to address it. This forum is a very helpful resource for parents making school decisions in the West Midlands and non grammar schools do provide a great education for many children and parents need to hear this too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -back.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[quote="lovelife123"][/quote]

You can see the strategies that are politically acceptable and they go something like this

1) Provide resources to children
2) Regularly celebrate and reward achievement
3) Help and encourage parents to support their kids achievements.

All three of these things are often in place and yet many parents choose to shun them. Many will not support homework. Some teachers will reinforce parents view by telling them they personally don't agree with homework.

Many socially and politically savvy teaching professionals, will simply point to the many "parent led" backlashes against homework and pushy heads, who are only interested in league tables and ofsteds. Even with a very good head doing all of the above therefore, you still have individual teachers pulling against the flow and encouraging parents to do the same.

It really does come down to propensities

a) How many parents in a school do not want to try
b) How many teachers cannot or do not want to try

You can always carry some of both in every school, however there comes a critical point where over a certain level and the cumulative impact of both becomes too much and children's futures start being systematically destroyed.

Most schools don't completely implode (unless 29% is considered an implosion), but the majority will come out the the process with severely limited options in life.

I would set up a national parents schools task force and target the bottom 20% of schools and flood them with targeted help for parents. Not a nanny state, but stuff to encourage and support parents to do more.

Just adding my two pence worth -

II have discovered a few things since starting the 11+ journey. One, is that some parents (myself included) are naïve about education and schools. I researched primary options fully, and my children go to an outstanding primary that does some great work with them. I thought that aside from me supporting homework that would be enough to get them a good primary education. Unfortunately it isn't. Whether parents are considering an 11+ route or not, there is so much more that can be done at home to support education, and I'm not convinced that parents are aware of this. So many are happy to do what school asks of them, have your child read this book to you, learn these spellings, do this maths worksheet, yet there is much more that can be done to support their children and education.

For example, my DD is year 4, I am now 'lightly' beginning prep for the 11+ exam. This involves consolidation at home. We learn school spellings as normal - but now we also focus on understanding what the words mean and thinking of other words that mean the same. I was surprised that school don't do this, and pleased but a little saddened when my DD told me the other week that the teacher asked the class what a word (from a recent spelling list) meant, and only she put her hand up as she knew the answer (from our work at home). I'm glad what I'm doing supports her at school, but saddened that the other children aren't having the same input. There are some lovely, caring parents of other children in my DDs class who would do similar to me, but don't because they don't know it's beneficial and because school haven't asked them to. Similarly with times tables, school weren't teaching them out of order, so we learned them out of order at home. Teacher asked class who was willing to have a go out of order, DD did it perfectly - because of the input at home.

My point is that I think most parents are willing to do more but if you aren't a teacher and you aren't actively planning, researching topics (as the 11+ forces you to), you wouldn't know where to start or how to help. I agree with your point PP about helping and encouraging parents, some may not want to do it but I am convinced most would try to do more if they understood how, what and the difference it makes. Not just to the child's education but also confidence, my DD is confident she knows her times tables out of order, and confident she understands her spelling words, otherwise she wouldn't have put herself forward to answer. Getting praise for doing so also builds a little more confidence.

The bits and pieces I do at home take less than 30 minutes per evening. My husband and I work full time. It's not impossible, but if I hadn't prepared my son for the 11+ and therefore become fairly clued up about education,curriculums and CEM stuff I would probably still be a parent who believes that school will teach them everything they need to know (educationally).

This is typed on a tiny phone screen so I hope it makes sense! I'm not proof reading!!