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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Posts: 1425
I have stuck the % on for a selected few so you can see how good these guys are.

Where I have put it the first % is for A level entries achieving A*/A/B and the second % is for GCSE entries achieving A*/A.

As you can see King Edwards Handsworth is pretty similar in terms of A level performance, but say KEHS is significantly better at GCSE 92% vs 81%.

I thought KEFW 67% A*/A look relatively poor for it GCSE's and this is relfected in its position at 65.

Queen Mary High had an outstanding year and jumped over 100 places from 168 the last time round.

1st Queen Elizabeth Barnet 98.4% and 93.4%
9th CHB
16th Stratford GGS
22nd CHG
30 King Edward VI Stratford
35 KEVIHS 79.5% and 80.9%
49 Bishop Vesey
51 NGHS
52 WGHS 74.4% and 79.1%
53 Queen Marys Grammar
65 KEFW 76.5% and 67%
68 QMHS
118 Alcester GS

from the indies top 200 hundred

26 KES 94.6% and 88.8%
59 KEHS 83.7 and 92.2%


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:41 pm 
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These tables are fairly meaningless without knowing about their intake and their GCSE entry policy. Some schools won't enter students for the GCSE unlees they get a grade B [minimum] in the mock.

At A level, what grade did they need to get on the course? What grade did they need at AS to get into Year 13?

These 'details' are vital to really tell the difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:54 pm 
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Hi there Guest55, what is your suggestion to best differentiate schools?

I would have hoped the times league table would recognise such factors, are you suggesting that they definitely don't and therefore, virtually no reliance can be taken?

My local boys comp got 30% 5 A-C, so presumably this is fairly meaningless and the school (lordswood boys) is indistinguishable from Camp Hill Boys, because if you took in too account all the boys CHB exclude, don't allow to take the exam etc etc, then a truer and fair comparison would be made with Lordswood Boys.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:04 pm 
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Raw results just don't tell you enough to compare.

Progress measures are better based on prior attainment but even the published ones [DfE] based on a vague definition of ability [less able, more able] are flawed. The data schools get from RAISEonline is better as it breaks down KS2 data by sub levels and compares to GCSE outcomes - but that is not made public.

2010 KS2 tests were boycotted by many Primary schools so this year's data is particularly unreliable. Amongst the schools I know every one has a different sixth form entry requirement - some demand a grade A at GCSE some GS only require a grade B - very different. One local GS requires a grade B at AS to contiue to A2 but another local GS only requires a grade D - of course their 'raw results' look different.

If you knew the outcome for two identical [same KS2 results] children at GCSE then you might get closer to knowing which school was better.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Interesting and I assume your a teacher with the ref to raise. Regardless though, I think if you get your kids into a pretty good grammar, then results do reflect what the majority will achieve.

In other words of 100 kids that started at camp hill boys in 2010, it is almost certain that 90.7% of those day 1 starters did not make it all the way to Yr11 and achieve A*/A in all their GCSE. It will be out by a max of 1% I would suggest.

I think the points you make become increasingly relevant the worse the LA your in catchment for. Sandwell for example has to be one of the worst for secondary schools in the country. In that regard, who needs measures to tell you what you already know!!.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:30 pm 
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Yes - I'm a teacher - and I didn't use League tables to choose a school for my child.

In Bucks we have one qualification score across the LA - even with that the intake of each GS is very different. Some have virtually all level 5 - others don't - so they are 'unequal' to begin with. Of course the one with most level 5s should get most A/A*s but the intake differences aren't factored into these tables.


Last edited by Guest55 on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:03 pm
Posts: 1188
Location: Cheshire
Petitpois wrote:
I would have hoped the times league table would recognise such factors, are you suggesting that they definitely don't and therefore, virtually no reliance can be taken?


The Times (parent-power) league tables do not have any measure of value added.

A*-B at A level are double weighted compared to A*-A at (i)gcse.

So for example, if a school got 80% A*-B at A level and 60% A*-A at gcse the total ranking mark would be {(80 x2)+60} divided by 3. All schools are then ranked in order .

The Times League tables are very accurate at ranking schools in term of how selective the schools are to begin with and also reflect closely the Oxbridge/Med School/ RG university destination for their students , precisely what you would expect.

All of the top 20 State Selective schools listed are super-selectives except for one :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:53 pm 
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I'm mildly curious how KES can have a percentage for A-levels when they don't even do A-levels. How up to date is this table?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:04 am 
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Location: Cheshire
As G55 has correctly pointed out ,A level results need to be looked at with particular scrutiny.

At my sons Indies school A*-A at GCSE this yr was < 80%(average over 4 yrs 84% lower limit 75% upper limit 90%) but A*-B was 95+%(with an average 90% over 4 yrs lower limit 85% upper limit 95+%) with 77% at A*-A at A level this yr (lower limit 67% upper limit 80% over 4 yrs) average cohort for this school 98.

But here's the small print, to do A level at this school effectively one needs an A at (i)gcse and to do FM an A* at( i)gcse so they have already pre-selected the high performers .

Now, do their A levels grades look so impressive ?

But still not on the scale of QE for its creative accounting ! A state school no less :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:59 am
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Location: West Midlands
mike1880

May we assume they have a way of translating IB stats into A Level scores?

Anyway, apparently KES gets national IB school of the year and is also the second highest scoring school outside of the south.

We're blessed with some excellent schools here in the (dare I say it) greater Birmingham area.


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