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 Post subject: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:45 pm

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:29 pm
Posts: 52
Need help to understand this 11+ procedure. Every day I hear/read lot of different things from people. Please can anyone provide me with some information regarding
How long will be the test?
Is it true that the test is divided into 2 separate papers (45 mins each) with individually timed sections. Please can anyone advise me on the pattern.
Does anyone (whose kids have taken recently ) please tell me how the paper split into..i.e is it more of English or Maths

Is this true that if you put NGHS as your first choice and WGHS as 2nd on the application. If you don’t get a place in NGHS you won’t be offered a place in WGHS because this is not your first choice?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1425
Newbiee wrote:
Need help to understand this 11+ procedure. Every day I hear/read lot of different things from people. Please can anyone provide me with some information regarding
How long will be the test?
Is it true that the test is divided into 2 separate papers (45 mins each) with individually timed sections. Please can anyone advise me on the pattern.

Does anyone (whose kids have taken recently ) please tell me how the paper split into..i.e is it more of English or Maths

It is better to think of the test as 8-12 shorter sequential tests covering three area, VR, NVR and maths, lasting between 8 and 20 minutes. They play a recording telling kids to stop and start each section, so time pressure is a factor in you ability to do well

Newbiee wrote:
Is this true that if you put NGHS as your first choice and WGHS as 2nd on the application. If you don’t get a place in NGHS you won’t be offered a place in WGHS because this is not your first choice

Thanks

Don't worry about that KenyanCowGirl sorted us out with the advice put the school you want in the order of your preference. If yoy get a WGHS score you'll get it unless you put something else above and get the score for that, too

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:46 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:21 pm
Posts: 297
Hi newbie

The 11+ is complicated but you've found this forum so you are halfway there.

Read the 'stickies' the first few discussions with a kind of splat symbol at the start of the Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Wrekin region. The test specific content and the CEM preparation discussions are worth a careful read and occasional re-reads.

If it is all new and you're finding people difficult to talk to Bond does a lovely book called The Parents Guide to the 11+ - which explains a lot and has assessment tests for your child to help gauge if they're 11+ material.

I can't speak for everywhere in this region but in Birmingham tutoring is big business and some parents throw a lot of money at the 11+ campaign. We went DIY with 10 minute bonds (progressively working through age levels 9-10/ 10-11/ 11-12 in all 4 areas - VR/ English/NVR/ Maths, CGP CEM practice papers and 11+ essentials Cloze tests with my small fry from around March 2015 in run up to test sept 2015. Everyone seems to agree that reading quality fiction really helps - since vocabulary is key to success - good list of books here http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice/english/reading-list

My genuine advice is that the time and money you can spend on your 11+ campaign is along the lines of 'How long is a piece of string?' So best to do some real soul searching about your aspirations, your commitment to support this and will it be worth it if the result isn't enough to get in.

If you can talk to friends who,have been there and done that.

I had my eldest not succeed to get in for sept 2014 entry and small fry has just scraped it into CHG this year. So I've got a mixed track record - but I think if you embark on this as an education improvement initiative rather than an all out battle to get into X grammar school, it does seem to help keep things in perspective.

Whatever else there's no preparing you for the worry of results or offer day. Nor any consolation when it's a near miss. So have a deep search of your feelings before jumping into this - it isn't easy, it can be frustrating but also it can be very rewarding. Reading and working with my girls has been a real pleasure and I know it's going to take some adjusting now I'm retired.

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:58 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1425
OldTrout wrote:
Hi newbie

The 11+ is complicated but you've found this forum so you are halfway there.

Read the 'stickies' the first few discussions with a kind of splat symbol at the start of the Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Wrekin region. The test specific content and the CEM preparation discussions are worth a careful read and occasional re-reads.

If it is all new and you're finding people difficult to talk to Bond does a lovely book called The Parents Guide to the 11+ - which explains a lot and has assessment tests for your child to help gauge if they're 11+ material.

I can't speak for everywhere in this region but in Birmingham tutoring is big business and some parents throw a lot of money at the 11+ campaign. We went DIY with 10 minute bonds (progressively working through age levels 9-10/ 10-11/ 11-12 in all 4 areas - VR/ English/NVR/ Maths, CGP CEM practice papers and 11+ essentials Cloze tests with my small fry from around March 2015 in run up to test sept 2015. Everyone seems to agree that reading quality fiction really helps - since vocabulary is key to success - good list of books here http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice/english/reading-list

My genuine advice is that the time and money you can spend on your 11+ campaign is along the lines of 'How long is a piece of string?' So best to do some real soul searching about your aspirations, your commitment to support this and will it be worth it if the result isn't enough to get in.

If you can talk to friends who,have been there and done that.

I had my eldest not succeed to get in for sept 2014 entry and small fry has just scraped it into CHG this year. So I've got a mixed track record - but I think if you embark on this as an education improvement initiative rather than an all out battle to get into X grammar school, it does seem to help keep things in perspective.

Whatever else there's no preparing you for the worry of results or offer day. Nor any consolation when it's a near miss. So have a deep search of your feelings before jumping into this - it isn't easy, it can be frustrating but also it can be very rewarding. Reading and working with my girls has been a real pleasure and I know it's going to take some adjusting now I'm retired.

lovely post, especially last para.
+1
12 months ago I would have read this as a check list, today my eyes well up a bit
PP

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:06 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:21 pm
Posts: 297
Thanks PP

I forgot to mention to Newbie but I'm sure you'll back me up on this - waiting is the hardest part.

And let's not talk about those poor pizza flyer delivery guys being attacked by strung out 11+ parents....

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:24 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:23 pm
Posts: 12

I feel great joy when I hear parents doing the diy route and successfully getting their Dc into a great grammar school like yourself. Congratulations to you and your dd!

A tutor came recommended and ds had a few lessons at the beginning of yr4. I would travel 9 miles to drop him off for a 2 hr lesson (£30) on a Saturday and then would hang around with 2 toddlers until I had to pick him up. Upon getting home and I would check the work done in the lesson and was surprised to see not a lot of ground had been covered. When I queried ds he said they did a test on synonyms/antonyms which they were given for hwk to learn and then spent time marking fellow classmates hwk (100 questions). Then they would make a start on the maths hwk for that week which consisted of a mixture of all random topics compiled together. I asked ds whether he did any work there but did not bring it home he said no they didn't do any extra work in class apart from what he bought home. He also mentioned upon further questioning that the tutor would leave the room to answer phone calls and spent a lot of time telling stories of when he was a kid. After 4 weeks of the same b******* I just left.

I now spend an hour with him on Saturday doing the cgp/s&s books and find its more productive then what he was doing at the tuition centre. If that's the kind of tuition available then I would rather not waste my time and money thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:35 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:23 pm
Posts: 12
newbie - make sure you do your research into tutors/ tuition centres even if they come recommended, always trust your instincts.

old trout- did you use any extra books/papers apart from the ones you mentioned?

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:13 am

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 488
Love OldTrout's post and completely agree. (We DIY'd as well - DD1 got place on offers day, DD2 scraped in from wait list at the end of July).
If you go to http://www.birminghamgrammarschools.org
Good luck with it all!

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:35 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:05 pm
Posts: 35
May I ask for experiences of mock exam providers?

We went the DIY route with our DD 3 years ago and happily she was offered her first choice GS on offers day. This year our DS will sit both Birmingham and Wolves exams as we are genuinely interested in schools in both areas. Our two are about equal in academic ability however our DS is a less confident child and is likely to be anxious on exam day.

We are therefore looking to book him onto at least one mock exam this summer. There seem to be so many around and I guess some are closer to the 'real thing' than others. Would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: 11+ Procedure mindboggling--Please AdvicePosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:52 pm

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 2813
Newbiee wrote:
Is this true that if you put NGHS as your first choice and WGHS as 2nd on the application. If you don’t get a place in NGHS you won’t be offered a place in WGHS because this is not your first choice?

Thanks

You MUST fill your Common Application Form (CAF) with your TRUE ORDER OF PREFERENCE.

Take this example: You like Blue School best but must score over 92 to get in there. You like Red School next best but must score over 84 to get there. And Yellow School is your local catchment comprehensive school.

1) Blue School
2) Red School
3) Yellow School.

Results come out and you have scored 90....You haven't scored enough to be offered your first listed choice, so you get offered Red School by your LEA. This is because it is your next highest choice that you have listed AND you meet the entry requirements for it. (You are put on the waiting list for Blue School as the LEA realises this is the school you really want). You are removed from Yellow School's list because you have been offered a school (Red) that you listed as a higher preference than Yellow.

In the situation above, you must accept Red School. You might get offered your proper first choice (Blue School) from the waiting list - but you might not. If you do not get your first choice school (in this case Blue School) the LEA will look at your next choice AS IF IT WAS YOUR FIRST CHOICE - if you don't meet the entry criteria for that one, they look at your third choice as if it was your first choice and so on. You must always have one school that you are guaranteed acceptance to (for example your local catchment comprehensive school) - (this would usually be listed as a lower preference to any Grammar Schools) - otherwise, if you do not meet the entry criteria for any of your listed schools, the LEA has to allocate you one, which could be miles away.

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