Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
Re: Max, Min and PP scores * updated *
I went to a data conference with academics from the US and the head of the ICO. It is very very easy to work out who people are from surprisingly innocuous bits of it info. The US academic showed me an algorithm that produced 70% accuracy on home addresses by simply having access to netflix movie rental datasets and cross ref with social media profiles. Bonkers
Re: Max, Min and PP scores * updated *
Many thanks to AK for all the work on getting the data, and for updating and amending the table 
!
!Re: Max, Min and PP scores * updated *
PP - I can take back what I said above. The max PP score of CHG was 252 and not 235MSD wrote:That for me actually reflects the true picture and what should really be expected. So the highest scoring PP girl was ranked the same as the lowest scoring non-PP girl at CHB. That's quite encouraging and the real reason for the scheme to be there in the first place. But doesn't appear to be the same story with CHB.Petitpois wrote:Notice the CHG girls numbers coincicide (235 lowest Non pp and 235 Highest PP) - that surely confirms that not 100% of PP places were taken at CHG
If those CHG numbers are confirmed I am not sure what the point of Pupil premium at that school is?????
Re: Max, Min and PP scores * updated *
I'd well believe it. A carefully protected digital footprint is a great gift to our children. We're responsible for it while they're young. Anonymity may be impossible in real terms, but we can choose at least not to reveal anything that malicious individuals could use for harmful purposes.Petitpois wrote:I went to a data conference with academics from the US and the head of the ICO. It is very very easy to work out who people are from surprisingly innocuous bits of it info. The US academic showed me an algorithm that produced 70% accuracy on home addresses by simply having access to netflix movie rental datasets and cross ref with social media profiles. Bonkers
Buying online? Please support music at TGS. No cost to you. Fundraising makes a difference.
Tiffin Girls' School has a designated area; see the determined admission arrangements. Use the journey planner. Note the Admissions timetable and FAQs.
Tiffin Girls' School has a designated area; see the determined admission arrangements. Use the journey planner. Note the Admissions timetable and FAQs.
Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
AKLovingDad
Thanks for posting non PP and PP score ranges - fascinating
I have three comments
1. I think the fact that in a number of places PP candidates are above the initial non PP cut off is heartening. I hope it shows that extra funding for support of FSM in state sector schools and the pressure on schools to 'close the attainment gap' may be making inroads. Or at least I'd like to think so. When non PP cut offs drop the PP scores will be even closer to non PP.
2. I know it's a minor point - but not making the non PP cut off does impact children. The fact that grammar schools are taking in kids with scores lower than little fish achieved has made her feel that she was 'good enough' for a grammar just the competition was fierce/ it wasn't her day/ etc... That has helped for us at least and confirms my view that many kids are able enough for grammar school, it's just the problem of limited spaces.
3. I know throughout various feeds on this region there has been discussion about PP and its impact on places. I would just like to emphasise that the overall number of places for non PP pupils has not declined. Those numbers remain constant and in fact in the first years of the PP scheme with not all 30 PP places taken up in some schools ( and I think in 2014 PP wasn't announced yet; we just were told at the time of results there would be more places) - it has meant that borderline non PP candidates have benefitted (i.e. with no take up of PP places, because too few applicants or remainder below PP threshold, they have been offered to non PP candidates).
I think widening access is a good thing and the PP system seems to be trying to achieve that whilst simultaneously solving the problem of increasing the number of school places for secondary intake (which by all accounts is a huge issue in Birmingham at least). I hope talk of people abusing this system is just that - in the same way people talked about older siblings sitting the exam for younger brothers or sisters or whether age adjusted scores are fair (when you are the wrong side of the cut off, born in the autumn and there are only a few points in it - well of course they're unfair.
).
Thanks for posting non PP and PP score ranges - fascinating
I have three comments
1. I think the fact that in a number of places PP candidates are above the initial non PP cut off is heartening. I hope it shows that extra funding for support of FSM in state sector schools and the pressure on schools to 'close the attainment gap' may be making inroads. Or at least I'd like to think so. When non PP cut offs drop the PP scores will be even closer to non PP.
2. I know it's a minor point - but not making the non PP cut off does impact children. The fact that grammar schools are taking in kids with scores lower than little fish achieved has made her feel that she was 'good enough' for a grammar just the competition was fierce/ it wasn't her day/ etc... That has helped for us at least and confirms my view that many kids are able enough for grammar school, it's just the problem of limited spaces.
3. I know throughout various feeds on this region there has been discussion about PP and its impact on places. I would just like to emphasise that the overall number of places for non PP pupils has not declined. Those numbers remain constant and in fact in the first years of the PP scheme with not all 30 PP places taken up in some schools ( and I think in 2014 PP wasn't announced yet; we just were told at the time of results there would be more places) - it has meant that borderline non PP candidates have benefitted (i.e. with no take up of PP places, because too few applicants or remainder below PP threshold, they have been offered to non PP candidates).
I think widening access is a good thing and the PP system seems to be trying to achieve that whilst simultaneously solving the problem of increasing the number of school places for secondary intake (which by all accounts is a huge issue in Birmingham at least). I hope talk of people abusing this system is just that - in the same way people talked about older siblings sitting the exam for younger brothers or sisters or whether age adjusted scores are fair (when you are the wrong side of the cut off, born in the autumn and there are only a few points in it - well of course they're unfair.
).Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
I support pupil premium. BUT, No one is in any doubt about the remaining inequity of the system.
Huge numbers of dissatisfied parents this year as in many previous years. The squeezed middle really does get hammered in the current set up from what I can see....
Huge numbers of dissatisfied parents this year as in many previous years. The squeezed middle really does get hammered in the current set up from what I can see....
Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
Petitpois wrote:Huge numbers of dissatisfied parents this year as in many previous years. The squeezed middle really does get hammered in the current set up from what I can see....
I do see your point and agree it isn't a level playing field.
Certainly as a family we felt we could only afford tutors by dropping all outside activities, no school trips and no family trips (days out, visiting grand parents, etc...). It's a personal decision but we felt we couldn't go that direction. So even though we're at schools where tutoring from year 4 is increasing and intensive tutoring in year 5 is 'the norm' - we chose to go DIY and have had mixed results (disappointment for 2014 entry and success for 2016 entry).
I don't think tutoring automatically guarantees success or DIY dooms your child to failure. I do think competition is fierce and increasing numbers of 11+ candidates due to increasing birth rate just compounds the competition.
On a personal note - small fry spent run up to results being told she'd fail because 'her Mum was too cheap/ stupid to have her tutored' - majority of her class had private tutoring. She then has weathered bouts of being picked on (as results were learned, offers were announced, etc....). She has been reduced to tears several times. Any mistake in class is pounced on by unsuccessful fellow pupils. She's not alone - other successful kids have had 'issues' with unsuccessful kids at the school after results and after offers this week.
I think small fry and I could have done without this aspect of the 11+ experience.
Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
That happened in our school too. The day before the Tiffin Girls' first round exam, DD was helpfully informed by a group at school that "It's not possible to get a place at TGS unless you've had a tutor." (Wrong). The same day, another child was told by the same group that her family didn't have enough money to pay for tuition. (Also wrong - they're now happily paying full fees at the indie of their choice). Interestingly, the mean-spirited and ill-informed detractors aren't going anywhere special this year, despite their expensive tuition.OldTrout wrote:
On a personal note - small fry spent run up to results being told she'd fail because 'her Mum was too cheap/ stupid to have her tutored' - majority of her class had private tutoring. She then has weathered bouts of being picked on (as results were learned, offers were announced, etc....). She has been reduced to tears several times. Any mistake in class is pounced on by unsuccessful fellow pupils. She's not alone - other successful kids have had 'issues' with unsuccessful kids at the school after results and after offers this week.
I think small fry and I could have done without this aspect of the 11+ experience.
Buying online? Please support music at TGS. No cost to you. Fundraising makes a difference.
Tiffin Girls' School has a designated area; see the determined admission arrangements. Use the journey planner. Note the Admissions timetable and FAQs.
Tiffin Girls' School has a designated area; see the determined admission arrangements. Use the journey planner. Note the Admissions timetable and FAQs.
Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
Similar stuff here too, old trout. I wonder whether everyone gets some of this. It's been an emotional week for thousands of kids and parents. We too have seen melt down's because she has made a mistake last week and then other kids have gone off on one, ha ha you got one wrong.OldTrout wrote:
On a personal note - small fry spent run up to results being told she'd fail because 'her Mum was too cheap/ stupid to have her tutored' - majority of her class had private tutoring. She then has weathered bouts of being picked on (as results were learned, offers were announced, etc....). She has been reduced to tears several times. Any mistake in class is pounced on by unsuccessful fellow pupils. She's not alone - other successful kids have had 'issues' with unsuccessful kids at the school after results and after offers this week.
I think small fry and I could have done without this aspect of the 11+ experience.
We have also had the you only just scraped a KE, will she be alright patronising line. To which I respond we have not been offered a KE (true) and we will be going to WGHS which she nailed.
The one that really really makes me laugh is the cheap shot, that one kid threw at my DD, which was I only scored 6 points less than DD1, but she was tutored, so even though I have not got a place at grammar, my score is still better than your score. She may well be smarter than my DD. That was my point about the inequity of the system and lots of families being forced into sub optimal choices, but my DD is a product of the system, not a precursor. It is too difficult for me to try and an explain to my DD the finer nuances of all this.
I never thought that the blue coat kids were not entitled to what they have got, nor thought I was better than those who were not interested in the 11+. For me it has always been about trying. Using what we had to maximum effect and trying to minimise the impact of what we had not got.
I had a good chat with a camp hill girls alumni, this weekend and she reassured me that the culture in these schools is one of striving for excellence, with minimal snobbery (hence the strong emphasis on uniform policy). I was so impressed about how she talked about the teachers, being willing to give up lunch times to ensure girls progressed or go over areas they found difficult. She described the teachers as positive and inspirational. If that is only 50% true we know we will have done the right thing for our daughter (and I suspect it is 100% true), and I could not give a flying frigate (or bashed up rover 420) what other parents want to think. She is where she is for one more term is the way I look at it.
Re: Max, Min and PP scores 2016 * updated *
There is not only inequality within PP, but across primary schools. DS is at a 1 form intake school, and we were told that the school are not allowed to discuss Grammar schools, let alone help in any way towards their learning (apparently this comes from Birmingham City Council). You then hear from other parents at different schools that the school have actively given them synonym / antonym tests etc. in order to assist. It was all down to parent research (which we obviously didn't do very well) as to what would be tested, where the schools were, how long the exams were. On the flip side there was no ribbing in school by the children or parents as there was no competition as it was never discussed. Had it been, I think we would have been far better prepared and in a better position to have helped DS1. Hopefully we have learnt a lot through this process and can guide DS2 more successfully.
