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[helen0209]

I know this is going completely off thread, but it is so true. You see whole families in restaurants, trains etc. all on their separate devices. It is not only the reading which has been lost, but the whole skill of having a conversation and being able to interact and engage with people.

However, as parents I think we are also guilty. I for one used to read avidly to my children when they were young; indeed it was part of the whole bath / bedtime routine. As they got older I used to listen to them read to ensure they were progressing / developing. However, as time progresses, and they are older and more independent it becomes less of the normal routine, which, in hindsight is a travesty. We have never allowed the use of any device in a restaurant and do talk to each other, and play games on a train, but the reading has slipped. This has been rectified this year with DS2, and I hope it isn't too late.

[salsa]

I know this is going completely off thread, but it is so true. You see whole families in restaurants, trains etc. all on their separate devices. It is not only the reading which has been lost, but the whole skill of having a conversation and being able to interact and engage with people.

However, as parents I think we are also guilty. I for one used to read avidly to my children when they were young; indeed it was part of the whole bath / bedtime routine. As they got older I used to listen to them read to ensure they were progressing / developing. However, as time progresses, and they are older and more independent it becomes less of the normal routine, which, in hindsight is a travesty. We have never allowed the use of any device in a restaurant and do talk to each other, and play games on a train, but the reading has slipped. This has been rectified this year with DS2, and I hope it isn't too late.

It's great you've started reading again. I must say that I didn't think I would still be reading to my 13 year old, but they really love stories and we love being able to discuss them with them. They do read independently and to us too.

[JaneEyre]

To go back to this conversation about reading, here is an article from the US (hence the reference to 'grades' rather than 'year') which I find rather thought-provoking:

Are Today’s Schools Giving Children “Worthless Literature” to Read?
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/are-today" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;’s-schools-giving-children-“worthless-literature”-read

[um]

The link is http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog ... 80%9D-read" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I actually really like the Scholastic list (not a Judy Blume fan myself but I like the others) and would recommend Number the Stars by Lois Lowry.
I read it recently for the first time and thought it was an excellent, meaningful children's book.

Obviously here on this forum we tend to be discussing 11 Plus entry and therefore more able children, but in fairness to Scholastic, the list would have been compiled with all children's needs and abilities in mind. I'd simply suggest (for 11 Plus aims) that the books listed are best read before the end of Year 5, not age 13.

As for the 1892 book list, we have to remember that the majority of children would leave school by the end of primary and went on to work very quickly. At this time, 6 year olds were still being sent up chimneys. It would have been a list compiled for the elite only - with access to an elite education via governesses, tutors, and private schools.

[UmSusu]

Interesting read but I think the writer has mixed up reading levels (which would apply to any age) with grades/year groups for the 19C list. I really dislike the snobbery towards books that the writer reflects- Jane Austen would have been considered low-brow/unimportant reading at one point and now is read and taught from schools up to graduate level. Agatha Christie was very popular, then rather a joke, and this year we introduced her on our first-year undergrad English Lit course. Tastes and considerations of worthy reading change over time.

I agree that the Scholastic range are aimed at a wider range and many can be read before year 5, but not all children, including those preparing for 11 plus, would necessarily be ready to engage fully with all the themes of some of the books. Some children do not develop the emotional awareness until later. As long as they are reading for pleasure then that is always a good thing - whatever age they are when they pick up the books and whatever books they choose.

I really can't get DS3 out of his 'fiction is make-believe and non-fiction is about real facts' (hence more worthy) mindset. I can't tell you how disappointing that is but I have resigned myself to the fact that he is just not ready to deal with the emotional identification required with reading fiction. Until then, I will keep nudging things his way, or read them to his brother at bedtime so that he 'overheard' and see if he can pick up enough synonyms and antonyms from reading encyclopaedias - I hope he gets the emotional maturity at some point before adulthood though!

[JaneEyre]

Thank you for giving the proper link, um! Some technicalities must have taken place when I did the copy and paste.

Umsusu, it is so nice to read you again after many months of absence!

[mike1880]

I really can't get DS3 out of his 'fiction is make-believe and non-fiction is about real facts' (hence more worthy) mindset. I can't tell you how disappointing that is but I have resigned myself to the fact that he is just not ready to deal with the emotional identification required with reading fiction. Until then, I will keep nudging things his way, or read them to his brother at bedtime so that he 'overheard' and see if he can pick up enough synonyms and antonyms from reading encyclopaedias - I hope he gets the emotional maturity at some point before adulthood though!

I wouldn't hold your breath, the sales statistics are unequivocal: few males read fiction. On a purely utilitarian note - my perception based on our two, both avid and very advanced readers with entirely opposite (but according to the market surveys, entirely conventional) tastes, is that non-fiction will deliver a substantially wider vocabulary at this stage.

[salsa]

That's interesting. However, my two boys are avid fiction readers. I think that the challenge is to get them to look up the new words. I've asked my two what they think the word means and they come up with very creative answers sometimes!

[JaneEyre]

JUDITH KERR WINS BOOKTRUST LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD 2016
Tiger Who Came to Tea and Mog author is celebrated for her outstanding contributions to children’s literature

https://www.theguardian.com/childrens-b ... ame-to-tea" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UmSusu]

I wouldn't hold your breath, the sales statistics are unequivocal: few males read fiction. On a purely utilitarian note - my perception based on our two, both avid and very advanced readers with entirely opposite (but according to the market surveys, entirely conventional) tastes, is that non-fiction will deliver a substantially wider vocabulary at this stage.

I never really thought about it like that Mike, as my eldest 2 boys always loved fiction at primary I never made a distinction in reading habits ( DS1 only reads non-fiction now though). Only around 1/3 of English Lit students on groups I have taught were male so I guess that is reflected there too.

I agree about being able to get a greater range of vocab from non-fiction and it does a lot to develop interests and hobbies - but you can't learn empathy from an encyclopaedia that's for sure