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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 43
Location: birmingham
I know that this question has probably been asked before, but I have searched the boards and cannot find the answer so I do apologise.

When will my Daughter find out her score in the exam on Saturday? Will she never find out, or in March or?

I am so nervous for her. But I have been laid back and treating it like another thing on the path of education!! HELP lol

liesa
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Hi liesauk my daughter also sitting test next Sat and she is getting nervous.... as I am too.... we get the results in March... Birmingham LEA send us one offer of school so will depend how you've ranked each school on the pref. form and how well your daughter has done in the test.
My understanding of all the B'ham tests is that they take the top scoring pupils after the scores are standardised to take account of age differences. Sutton has 150 places so the 150 girls with highest scores will be admitted. Hope that's right.... KenR and fm are more experienced in this than I am and surely will correct me if I'm wrong.

Good luck to your daughter for next Sat.... seems to have come round really quickly doesn't it?? Is you daughter sutting the KE tests too?

Regards Clarendon


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:17 pm
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Location: birmingham
hi!
thanks for the reply, no she isn't sitting KE we live about 1/4 mile from sutton girls so we just picked that one because it is a good school. She, I think would prefer to go to Plantsbrook, but we will see how she performs on the day.
I wondered if we found out her scores before the deadline for the choices. My other daughter in Year 5 will be sitting tests for all the grammar schools in the area, as she wants that kind of education more than her sister I think.

but once again thanks for your help and I wish you and yours all the best for the test next week!!


Liesa
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Hi Liesauk

I'm afraid in Birmingham you won't find out whether your daughter has been successful and been allocated a place at a grammar school until national allocation day on the 2nd or 3rd March.

If you are successful and are offered a place at a grammar school then you won't find out your marks. The LEA or KE Foundation only tell you your scores if you are unsuccessful or are on the waiting list, and then only if you formally request them.

What schools have you applied for and what preference order have you put down?

Please check these and make sure there are no mistakes; every year we usually find a few parents who have screwed up the preferences and find that their child could have been offered a place at a grammar school but wasn't because they put another non grammar higher on the preference list.

If you are considering applying for the KE Foundation schools then please make sure that you include KE Handsworth girls somewhere in your preference list (but higher than the comprehensives). The reason for this is that the pass mark for KE Handsworth is usually a little lower than KE Camp Hill Girls or KE 5-Ways. (circa 317 compared to 325 and 330 respectively).

Also Sutton Girls Grammar is now much tougher to get into, particularly as the test is easier than the KE test so the pass scores are very much higher. This can work against bright children who just have a blip on the day with a few questions.

Regards

Ken


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Hi Liesauk,

Think our posts crossed.

I would definitely give some thought to applying for the KE Foundation exam and including KE Handsworth in your preference list above Plantsbrook but below Sutton Coldfield Grammar. It not too late to apply and to contact the LEA and change your preference list.

The reasons I would suggest this are:-

    There is an excellent School Green Bus Service from Sutton/Boldmere to KE Handsworth

    The KE Foundation exam is a different harder exam - some children fail the LEA 11+ exam but pass the KE Exam. 2 bites of the Cherry!

    KE Handsworth Girls is a great school

    I'm sure she will like the school and find there are lots of girls from the area attending


Regards

Ken


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:09 pm 
Dear Ken,

Agree with everything you say apart from maths. Children now get their marks automatically for Sutton/BV, regardless of whether they achieve entry or if it is their first choice school. That's how I know so much about what scores are needed because I had access to 8 different sets of marks.

I would also support what you say. KE and Sutton are very different exams. I have had children target both and only get KE Handsworth, and I know of children who get Sutton but not KE. I know a girl who only did Sutton as a backup, scored extremely highly in Sutton (370+) but was nowhere near the entry mark for KE.

Regards,

Fm


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
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Location: Birmingham
I do have a further question.... does anyone know what part of Sutton test is MC and what part usn't, please? I rang BCC but was given the response that there is some of both in the test but they wouldn't be drawn any further. It would be much beeter for all the children if at least they knew the format of the test!

Thanks to anyone who can help


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:52 pm 
Dear Clarendon,

Every year they tell my parents conflicting things. It is my belief that the girls' exam is the same as the boys', and the boys have this on their website:

The entrance examination consists of three separate papers. These have been designed to identify the most able candidates and are likely to be very difficult for children of average or below average ability. The three papers are:

Verbal Reasoning: This paper will test pupils' ability to reason and will be of 30 minutes duration, with a practice test of 10 minutes.

Non-Verbal Reasoning: This paper tests the ability of pupils to reason with shapes and symbols, and will be of 35 minutes duration, including some time for practice.

Mathematics: This paper emphasises problem solving skills applying mathematical knowledge appropriate for key stage 2 of the National Curriculum and will be of 50 minutes duration. There is no practice paper.

Each of the questions will have an equal weight and will be standardised to account for age differences in candidates.

The tests are considered to be valid, reliable and fair. It is recognised that parents may wish to help their children. However, it is believed that excessive practice and coaching should be discouraged because it is counter productive. The tests are in the Standard, and not the Multi Choice format..


The clearly says standard and so far all my pupils have reported it to be standard.

The non-verbal, however, has a choice of 5 so in that sense it is multiple choice and some of the maths tests gives you a choice of answer so it is, in a sense, multiple choice. The most appropriate practice papers for Sutton, however, are NFER maths standard, not the multiple choice.

Asssuming the exam is the same as last year, there was 50 maths questions in 50 minutes, 2 sets of 20 non-verbal, 12 minutes given for each set (last year codes and matrices so probably won't turn up this year) and 45 verbal reasoning questions in 30 minutes. The verbal reasoning is pretty much as practice tests except they don't tend to have the code questions (children complain about the fact they have practised them and then they don't appear) but they do have anagrams which are not featured in their practice tests at all.

Last year I hedged my bets on whether it was MC or standard and did NFERD which each child as MC but this year I probably won't bother. While my male pupils were too lazy to write an account of the exam, I did go over it verbally and it did sound the same exam.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
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Location: Birmingham
Thank you very much fm for that useful info...I've posted under "grammar admission pass mark 326" with a few details of my daughter's current attainment. I'm especially grateful for the info re anagrams as we can look at these over the coming week. She likes codes and is good at them, so slightly disappointed that they don't tend to come up... at least she'll be prepared if they do!

Clarendon


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:56 pm 
Dear Clarendon,

All children like codes and tend to get 11/12 and 12/12 in this section which accounts for the high scores last year. They appear to rotate which sections they use (or indeed exam papers they replicate) because one of my pupils last year seems to have had the same exam as her sister who sat it 4 years earlier.

Assuming they do avoid the same as last year, I would think series/analogies and most alike/most different would come up. But I am only suggesting that because it would be the sensible thing to do --that is, not replicate last year's.

Most importantly, your daughter sounds as though she will pass Sutton. When it is over, put the whole experience aside, and warn her that KE is a completely different experience. My own daughter found KE very upsetting because she was expecting a repeat of Sutton (relatively easy exam, lots of time over, everything in the form she'd practised). In fact, I tell my parents not to bother with Sutton unless you intend to send your child there if KE doesn't work out (not that they all listen to me) because it's always the children who do Sutton who come out of the KE test, white-faced, and are most shocked by the difficultly level of the KE exam. That said, it seems to make no difference to who ultimately gets into KE --they are just more negative about their chances of KE having emerged from Sutton, knowing they'd finished everything and achieved high marks.


To Kenr,

I've just read my post to you. I'm afraid I wrote it after my first glass of Saturday night wine. Maths should read marks.


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