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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:20 am
Posts: 9
Dear KenR and Fm,

This is the first time I am having to go though the parental stress with preparing my eldest son for KE Camphill school. I am sure you can imagine my worries and frustration!

I want to get a reasonable indication of how my son's current level fits into the KEC selection criteria.

He achieves an average 85% mark in his Bond (11 to 12) books and Letts papers. He can then correct about 70% of his mistakes without help. The remaining 30% I have to show him the trick and he understands them well. He normally does the paper within the stated time.

Does he have a reasonable chance of getting into KEC? I am under the impression that pupils who do get into KEC must be scoring 95-100% in their Bond tests? Then I say to myself this assumption can not be true!

Are their any parents out there whose kids have recently joined KEC or any other KE schools? Can they help please? by telling us their kids average score in preparation papers?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:01 pm 
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Hi miafsar

I don't think you can answer this question based on the information you provide as the content of the KE Foundation exams and Bond papers are completely different.

I am aware of some children who have failed Bishop Vesey (NFER based exam) but passed the KE Foundation and vice versa.

If you recall I think I did provide some relevant information in a previous post:-

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?t=7485

Vocabulary is key in the KE Exams; how does he do in with Vocab based synonyms and Comprehsion papers?

Have you tried a variety of papers other than Bond? You need to ensure that he tries a variety of different papers, including some of the Cloze test questions I referenced in my previous post.

Ignore 95%-100% claims by other parents. This is a myth. The actual pass marks for KE Exam are somewhere between 50% to 70%, but it is tough and they are under time time pressure.


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 Post subject: KE Exam
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:45 am 
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As KenR has already stated I would not ne too pre-occupied with what your son is getting in bond papers. My daughter sat the KE Exam last year as well as the Sutton Coldfield Girls Exam she got onto the waiting list for SUtton and got offerred a place at KE Handsworth. As already stated vocabulary is key to this exam there are various word lists you can work through which can only help, I would also spend time on comprehension as this is the other area that tends to get neglected and is very important for KE. The feedback from my daughter for last year was that she didn't find the usual areas that difficut eg NVR, Maths etc. So the assumption that I drew bearing in mind she didn't get a place at Sutton waas that the difference must have been in the other areas.


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 Post subject: Message for KenR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:07 pm
Posts: 167
Hi Ken

In this post you state that the actual KE passmark is between 50-70%.

I am cutting and pasting a section from another of your posts :

The score a child achieves represents where they are in percentile terms compared to the total candidate population.

Hence:

A score of 139+ is the 99%+ percentile (within the top 1% of candidates.)
133-138 is the 99th percentile (top 1%)
128 - 129 97th percentile (top 3%)
120 - 91st percentile (top 9%)

Based on worst case previous statistics, to get into Camp Hill boys, a child would need to score 348 (347 +1 - 1 more, to avoid distance factors coming into play).

348 = 3 x116 ie the min average Age Standardised score.




This suggests that the minimum passmark is 86%

Please can you clarify??

Rgds


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:45 am 
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Location: Birmingham
Hi za1

I think you missed the point.

The scores we are talking about are Age Standardised scores not raw scores. Age Standardised scores are directly related to candidate percentiles.

In the Age Standardisation process raw scores are converted to Age Standardised scores via a table (with a small adjustment for candidate age). This process varies from exam to exam.

The point we were making was that for the new Univ of Durham CEM 11+ the raw scores for a minimum pass(circa 116 ) have historically been between 50%-70% much lower than for other exams.

This differs from old style NFER type 11+ exams which used to have a very much higher pass mark. (circa 87%+)

The 86% percentile which was referred to was the pass point in the Age Standardised distribution not the raw pass mark. ie 14% of the population pass and 85% of the population failed.

Regards


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:28 am 
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Thanks alot KenR and SS1. This information is very helpfull indeed. I think I should just stop panicing and get on with stuff. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:07 pm
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Thanks Ken......my mistake - I didn't read the initial post properly....thank you for the clarification....I understand it now.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:27 pm 
As far as KE is concerned, I would not waste time trying to calculate your child's likelihood of passing this exam based on work and tests you have done. Most of the commercially available tests do not relate to KE at all.

Time would be better spent on multiple choice comprehensions of a reasonably hard level, freerice.com, any maths problems you can find (not Bond books), fraction and percentage work (as in relative sizes of), mental maths, Cloze tests, any unusual non-verbal tests and proofreading (although I have a feeling that has been dropped this year).

I would teach more than you test at this stage. Parents (including myself) often like to set their child tests at which they will do well for the parents' own reassurance but giving more and more of the same thing involves no new learning.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:56 pm 
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Many thanks fm. Your comments are very helpful. Atleast you mentioned the 2 subject, other than English! Everyone has been saying that Comprehension/VR is the key area. Altough I respect their comments, I am still a bit confused as I am under the impression that Maths and NVR still count for 2/3 of the exams, in terms of their weight in the final mark. Am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm
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Location: Birmingham
fm, I read your last post with interest and wondered why you believe the proofreading may be dropped by KE this year? Is this a hunch or something else? Also, if it is dropped, what would be a likely replacement? I'm guessing it would be an English/grammar exercise?

I appreciate you won't have definite ans. to these questions but if you could give some indication it would be most helpful.

Thanks


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