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 Post subject: Whats the minimum raw score for KEPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:26 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Birmingham
Many discussions have taken place on the above subject and contributions from a number of experts in this forum have helped us to understand it better. Iâ€™m trying to grasp it in bit more details to find the minimum raw score needed for a given exam for a given question type to qualify for KE.

I recently asked a question as to how a raw score is converted to a standardised score. Bit of internet search found the following formula used for the conversion.

S=15(b-a)/Sd + 100

Where; S is the standardised score, (b) is pupils raw score, (a) is average raw score of all pupils sit the exam for a given school and (Sd) is the standard deviation of the raw score of that exam.

Based on above, Iâ€™m trying to establish what are the minimum raw scores for each paper my child who is taking the exam this November, should aim for KE. For tat I need some inside information on the previous years.

As explained in this forum the KE exam consists of English/VR and Maths, NVR for which number of questions can vary by year.

Can someone please provide the following information for a given exam for KE? I donâ€™t know whether this information can be obtained from the school coz I have not tried yet.

(1) Number of questions for each type of questions Eng/VR, Maths and NVR
(2) Average raw score for each question type of all pupils of that year
(3) Standard deviation of the raw score of each type of questions.

By having the above information, I hope that I can find the minimum raw score that must be obtained to enter KE. Not sure this is has any effect!!! But someone must point me out whether this is waste of time.

Thank in anticipation

Kevin8

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:52 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11931
Sorry - as a Maths teacher - I think your efforts will be in vain as you cannot calculate the mean or sd of the group of children that will sit the test when your child does!

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:12 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Birmingham
Thanks, you may be right but these figures do not vary significantly I guess! Just to find with +or -10% accuracy would be sufficient. Perhaps if we have mean and sd for couple of years, then we may be able find with some accuracy.

KenR - What would you suggest?

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:01 pm
There are no sample exam papers available for the KE exam so even if you worked out that say 50/80 in non-verbal netted a December birth a score of 115 in the exam, you could not then apply this criterion to commercially available exams.
I have had pupils scoring 65+ (out of 75) in Learning Together papers who have gone on to score 116 standardised in the Sutton exam, only to totally bomb in the KE exam and get 92 standardised.
I understand you may be looking for reassurance or a benchmark for which to aim but that is not how the KE exam works.

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 Post subject: Standardized ScorePosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:10 pm

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:07 pm
Posts: 167
Kevin

To be honest, I think you are getting too involved in an area in which there is no real benefit to be gained. Why not take the simplistic approach and just prepare your kid the best you can? I hope this answer doesn't sound too flippant. But I really think that it will serve no purpose. For example, I have just received my son's BV results. They included his actual and standardised score. I have no clue how they worked out the standardised score. I'm sure they have a table of actual scores v age factors which they add or deduct from an average score. Don't worry about it is my advise.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:24 pm
I agree with the other posters. KEGS say their exam is written especially for them every year, so there is nothing to prevent them changing the format as much as they want to. Obviously you can prepare your child by making sure they are familiar with the concepts of VR and NVR, just as you would for a more run of the mill 11+ exam, but it would be utterly pointless to try and second guess what proportion of the marks a child should be aiming for in each section, even if you knew what the sections were going to be. If you want absolute predictability I would say stick to the Sutton Coldfield/BV test. For KEGS, children must expect the unexpected and not be fazed by it.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:53 am

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:51 pm
Posts: 2236
I agree with everyone else. (1) In the absence of examples of past KE papers, it won't help to know what the raw pass scores were because you can't map that to a different test type. (2) Unless your child was born mid-year, even if you had the raw scores it won't help unless you also have the age standardisation tables.

For what it's worth, the raw scores in each section that would each be equivalent a third of the standardised passing score one year (2003 iirc) are posted somewhere on this forum. However, it's impossible to say whether the numbers have any validity for any other year.

Mike

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:39 am
I agree with Mike. The raw scores for that year would not really be valid because I actually believe the raw scores to get a similar standardised score will have risen over the years as people have realised what is in this exam and have better prepared their children.
Rather than worry about scores, you need to spend the team raising your child's standard and speed in the various areas of the exam. Teach them rather than test them initially.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 am

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1300
Location: Birmingham
Hi Kevin

You could always write to the KE Foundation Office and request a copy of last's year's raw scores and age standardisaton table. I did that a few years ago under FOI and they provided it on that ocassion although they weren't obliged to as it happens.

However as others have mentioned, I don't think it will be that much use as you don't have the questions.

All I can tell you is that in 2006 (which was one of the early Durham CEM tests) - for a child of my son age (10.85 years) at the time of the test the following age standardisation conversions were used:-

VERBAL
63/100=113, 64/100=114, 67/100=116

NUMERICAL
43/82=113, 44/82=114, 46/82=116

NON VERBAL
49/70=113, 50/70=114, 52/70=116

The only thing I would point out is that the raw scores are significantly less than the 90% requirements claimed by some parents and also much lowere than typical NFER practice scores.

I recall that the around the area of the pass mark 116 (KECHB was 347 that year) the difference between the raw scores for the oldest and youngest child was about 7-8 marks in each of the sections. viz for VR for example the youngest child might onlky have had to 62/100 whereas for the oldest it was something like 70/100.

I'm afraid I don't still have the tables.

Hope this helps

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:33 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Birmingham
Thanks to everyone. Mission aborted!

KenR - Many thanks and really appreciated. I was told that if a child aiming to KE needs to get over 90% for each paper, and when it comes to comprehension, I though my son has no chance. So your explanation gives me a huge relief so thanks once again.

Iâ€™m not sure whether my son has any realistic chance in getting to KECHB( though we are just about a mile away form CHB). At present we use Bonds and currently at More 4th set. He consistently achieved the following scores for Bondâ€™s 3rd and 4th sets.

Maths - 87-92%(50 Qs around 25mins)
VR - 85-90% (80 Qs around 40mins)
NVR - 87-90% (60 Qs around 20Mins)
English - 78-84% (100Qs around 40Mins)
I find that he is trying to speed up and hence get some easy questions wrong!!

We have not started any 11+ papers and hope to complete Bonds More 5th and then Start 11+. Not sure whether we will have time for NFER materials. We are aiming for (KE, KES and BV)

I have learnt from this forum KE exams cannot be compared with any available test papers, however, please tell me whether his current performance level is in par with what is required at KE exams? Iâ€™m sure this may be a difficult question give a answer, whatâ€™s measure or benchmark that we can use to assess a childâ€™s ability to get through KE test?

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