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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:19 pm
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Location: bucks
Does anyone know the statistics on how many children pass the 11 plus but don't take up a GS place i have recently spoken to 2 parents one at a private school and one at another local primary who don't have any intention of taking up the gs place but want to see if their kids would pass. i just though if there are a lot of these then it may put up the pass mark but i suppose would help the appeals as they would have more places is this common ??


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:40 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Chiltern District, Bucks
Tree,

It's not what you're after, but about 18-24 months ago I uncovered a stat from Bucks CC that showed 1200 parents put an upper school down as their first choice EVEN THOUGH THEIR CHILD HAD NOT OPTED OUT OF SITTING THE 11+.

Out of those 1200, less than 10 children 'surprised their parents' and passed. One assumes that this handful of children did not take up a grammar school place despite passing the test.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Tree

Tree wrote:
Does anyone know the statistics on how many children pass the 11 plus but don't take up a GS place i have recently spoken to 2 parents one at a private school and one at another local primary who don't have any intention of taking up the gs place but want to see if their kids would pass.

This is more common among private school parents than state school parents, but do bear in mind that this may be a defensive move by both parents! They are guarding against the possibility that their child doesn't qualify. If the private school child qualifies, the parent may suddenly announce that "it seems silly to spend all that money after all", while the state school parent will say "how can we deny him the chance to go to a GS when he has passed the 11+?"

Tree wrote:
i just though if there are a lot of these then it may put up the pass mark but i suppose would help the appeals as they would have more places is this common ??

Just to clarify, it will not help with appeals directly. Appeals against non-qualification do not take account of the availability of places - an appeal is either successful or it isn't purely on the merits of the case. All 900+ such appeals heard each year can be allowed if the cases are strong enough.

Meanwhile, appeals for an over-subscribed school take place only when there are insufficient places at specific schools after March 1st. If these parents fail to take up a place it would then allow more children to be admitted from the waiting list after the first round of allocations. Thus the parents of children admitted from the waiting list would not need to go to a Transfer Appeal.

Hope I've made that clear - I'm posting in a rush, so ask questions if you want to!

S-A


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:19 pm
Posts: 517
Location: bucks
Very nicely explained as always sally anne. So the bottom line is that there will usually be enough people out of catchment to take up the places given up by this group?

Also does that mean that if 900 children pass the appeal they will be entitled to a place or just entitled to an allocation appeal?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Tree

Tree wrote:
So the bottom line is that there will usually be enough people out of catchment to take up the places given up by this group?

Yes and No! There are usually places left in Year 7 at some schools even after all the in- and out-catchment allocations are made. Those spare places are then mopped up by in-year testers and 12+ candidates the following year.

Quote:
Also does that mean that if 900 children pass the appeal they will be entitled to a place or just entitled to an allocation appeal?

All successful appeal cases are put into the allocation process alongside children who qualified by scoring 121 or higher. Places are then allocated to them in exactly the same way as for qualified children. Just as for qualified children, if they do not receive a place at their preferred school via the first round of allocations, they can go on the waiting list and apply for a transfer appeal. Once a child has been deemed "qualified" via an appeal they are considered to have scored 121 from that point forward, and their initial failure to qualify is irrelevant.

In reality, around 350 appeals are successful each year out of the overall figure of ca. 900.

S-A.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:28 pm
Posts: 950
Location: Bucks
I don't understand the benefit in parent's putting their children through the 11+ process if they have no intention of selecting a GS, I fail to see any plus side to the child in them doing this?? I sadden's me.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:25 pm
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A dad in my DS1's year (now Y8 ) was quite upfront about it. Did it so that his son's pass at Pate's (super dooper selective) could be used as leverage for reduced school fees at the v exp indie he already attended. Not a world I inhabit :?
PS EDIT why does the machine give sunglasses when I'm trying to say eight????!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Because the symbol fo Mr Cool is an 8 followed by a bracket. However, there is an override. It's called a Mod!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:25 pm
Posts: 2556
oh.
Thanks, S-A.
Although now I look a bit mad. whining about it and it's no longer there!!! The bracket bit was the confusing bit. Hadn't worked out why it was there sometimes, and not others. Will leave a gap in future. Or wait til he moves up to Y9 before mentioning him again.
Busily returns to thread before told off for veering.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:43 am
Posts: 360
Midget Man wrote:
I don't understand the benefit in parent's putting their children through the 11+ process if they have no intention of selecting a GS, I fail to see any plus side to the child in them doing this?? I sadden's me.


I know someone who has a child who has just done this. However, we are in Bucks, where the whole county is selective and all children sit 11+ unless they actively opt out. So although they haven't put grammar on their form, they gave the boy the choice of whether or not to sit the test, and he didn't want to be one of the odd ones out and knew it didn't really matter what he got, so no pressure.


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