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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Bucks does seem unusual in that many children who have passed but are OOC will not get their chosen GS place due to so many successful appeals by in-catchment parents of children who have failed. Obviously this seems fair to those in-catchment, but the fact that other counties don't do this suggests it is questionable. I can understand both sides, but I think the process actually relegates OOC passes and inevitably results in more appeals - albeit school preference appeals - further down the line.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:00 pm 
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Location: Bucks
I think that is awful! Those poor children who actually past outright would then have to possibly give up spaces for a child that didn't? I find that absolutely appalling for any area to act in such a way.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Even though my children were lucky enough to achieve the "magic number" and we therefore did not have to go through the appeal process, I must defend the way that Bucks works here. Some of the children that don't, for whatever reason qualify from the two tests, but do qualify through the appeal process, are incredibly capable, and in some cases more capable than some children who did get the "magic number".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Well parents of children who failed are understandably going to think that but the test is a fair test and children who passed, many with v high marks will end up not getting their chosen place. The mitigating circumstances revealed on this forum of course have some influence on how a child performed but by how much? There are two tests for a reason, and this year they were taken over a 2-week period, though most OOC children will have taken both tests in the same week. The playing field is never level, but I think the OOC field contains some pretty big craters - in Bucks anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:30 pm 
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You're going off topic on Daisydoo's appeal thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Thank you for pointing that out Mitasol. I have made a rather rough and ready split and moved the discussion to Bucks.

This is the relevant portion of dejavu's post that sparked the discussion:

dejavu wrote:
Here in Bucks, most 11+ appeals and their outcomes are held, and known, before allocation day. So if you win your appeal you DC is deemed to have qualified the same as all those that originally passed, and they are all put in the same melting plot re allocations, regardless of what score they achieved (as long as they got that magical 121 or their appeal was upheld).

So, if one of us put a secondary school above a gs place and you passed your appeal, you would still be given your first preference, and not the gs one which you really wanted. I would be tempted to put you gs school first, in the hope that you win your appeal. If unsuccesful, but you pass the 12+, then it might add weight to an oversubscription appeal that you put the gs as first preference, and that it has always been your Dd's first choice (every little helps - I included that in my 12+ appeal - that it had always been my Dd's first choice).


I should mention that Bucks CC Admissions do apparently make "fail-safe" checks to see if any qualified children (by score or appeal) have an Upper School as their first preference, and I believe that they then check that the parent really does want a U/S place rather than a grammar school place.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Location: Bucks
You'll have to explain how that is fail-safe SA for me being a dumbo newbie :lol:

Also, please tell me how I stop thinking about waiting for the results too :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Midget Man wrote:
You'll have to explain how that is fail-safe SA for me being a dumbo newbie :lol:


Say a parent has put an Upper School in first place and a grammar in second place, not expecting their child to pass. The child does pass, but the computer would automatically allocate the first preference Upper despite that. Instead a manual check is run to make sure that the parent really does still want an upper school place instead of grammar.

Quote:
Also, please tell me how I stop thinking about waiting for the results too :lol:

You have three choices:

1. Get someone to hit you over the head with a large mallet until they render you unconscious.

2. Drink sufficient whisky (or whatever your favourite tipple is) to likewise render you unconscious.

3. Watch enough re-runs of your preferred soap opera/reality TV show to render you unconscious.

I would advise against combining all three. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:40 pm 
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I coped with option 2 (albeit wine)! oops!

But - on the allocations point. It should maybe be pointed out that, unlike other '11 plus' counties, Bucks does not have any alternatives beyond the 11 plus system. It does not have, eg, a mixture of 'super-selectives' 'plain grammars' and indeed comprehensives (some of which in eg Kent are very good). Every child in Bucks must go through the 11 plus system - the only alternative is to go private and pay (which for most is probably not an option). It is surely, therefore, extremely important that the right decision is made for every Bucks child, and this might include an appeal. OOC children can 'opt in' to the system - I'm willing to bet that if they don't secure a grammar school place they don't take a Bucks Upper School, at least in 99% of cases. Bucks children can't, in the vast majority of cases, 'opt out' - and so, again, deserve the very best decision. Finally Bucks council tax payers presumably pay for (at least some) of the process - including any additional costs, even if they are the result of actions by a non-Bucks school. Again, all Bucks children deserve the most appropriate and equitable decision for their future.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Quote:
It is surely, therefore, extremely important that the right decision is made for every Bucks child, and this might include an appeal.
Test scores are not 100% reliable, so it is only right that there should be an appeal system.

An appeal is not a soft option. Quite apart from any extenuating circumstances, there has to be a compelling academic case to prove that the child should have qualified.

I remember Appeal Mum writing the following a few years back:
Quote:
How many children who passed the 11 plus would have got through on appeal? – An appeal where you have to show consistent high grades and strong evidence that your child will cope well at grammar school.

I think appeal children have to prove themselves more – but that’s my opinion.

DD said nobody would ever ask each other their scores, I think it’s just accepted that you’re in grammar school, therefore you must have passed the exam.

Little story for you:

DD’s friend (of sorts) who passed with flying colours, and rubbed my DD’s nose in it, is really struggling.

DD on the other hand has made me so proud with the A1 grades she keeps getting, (She isn’t satisfied – apparently she wants an A*!) and HT awards.

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