bucks vr not a good test

[Sally-Anne]

i think that the wider the assessment the more tutor proof it is; it's gonna be difficult to tutor your child in maths science english and nvr and vr to anything like the level possible for a single exam in vr and so children with natural abilities will be more reflected in the result.

But again, the problem with curriculum-based tests is that they favour children attending high-quality schools, state or private.

What happens to a bright child who is attending a failing school that provides poor quality teaching? With the quality of education a GS provides they would catch up fast if they are bright enough, but the problem is they won't get there in the first place.

[MrsChubbs]

Maybe the solution is for Bucks to concentrate on improving the quality of the offering in Upper schools so that parents feel happier about their child going there if they don't pass their 11 plus? There are a number of Bucks Upper schools that currently have this reputation (Holmer Green, Waddesdon etc spring to mind).

[Tree]

v good point mrschubbs and underlines the idea of matching school to child rather than pass fail

Sally-anne i understand what you are saying but curriculum studies by definition are the closest tests to the actual academic experience of secondary schools and are already an important factor in appeals also i think may be easier for parents themselves to prepare their kids for without the need for tutoring as the subject matter is more familiar to people in general and this maybe of advantage to children at poorer performing schools, the sad fact is that children at schools that are poor with parents who don't care about what school they go to are gonna be disadvantaged whatever the test but they will at least be examined in part on what they have been studying at school.

also if we build in the greater flexability of interschool transfer at a later stage then hopefully your gifted disadvantaged child will swap with an overcoached vr specialist but academically struggling (? my ds for example!! - although i hope not) child to both their advantage

[Cats12]

wow, this shows how tricky alternatives to the current test are. And doesn't bucks use just VR tests because these have been proven to be the best indicator of later achievement - there will always be exceptional children to contradict this but isn't it the case that you need the VR skills to do well in most subjects. At primary you often find many children who are v good at maths but are less good in reading and writing - such children are less likely to fare well at the 11+ and would likely struggle at many subjects in grammar school, save maths.....

[andyb]

Maybe the solution is for Bucks to concentrate on improving the quality of the offering in Upper schools so that parents feel happier about their child going there if they don't pass their 11 plus? There are a number of Bucks Upper schools that currently have this reputation (Holmer Green, Waddesdon etc spring to mind).

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, there are some excellent Upper schools in Bucks but unfortunately they are outnumbered by the truly dreadful. In my part of the county there are families moving house to be close to the good Upper schools. When we were looking for DS1 there was only one Upper school where I would willingly have sent him and because it is good the chances of us securing a place were remote. The dilema parents have is - do they tutor their DC into the academic grammar school environment where they may potentially struggle or do they accept the Upper school which is less "full-on" but may ultimately fail their child?

[6468j]

I agree with everything that has been posted on this forum and am in complete agreement with Tree. We have just gone through the appeal process and have been unsuccessful. Our DD has 3 5's, 2.1 Head Teachers recommendations, VR 132, QR 124. How much more academic ability do they require. Our letter basically pointed out that all the above was good, however, we had no extunuating circumstances. These children are 10. I believe the clause of extenuating circumstances should be written out and this would make the appeal system much fairer as all children would be judged on their academic ability and not if someone was ill or has died, people play on this even if the illness was 2 years previous.

6468j

[Tree]

hi 6468j really sorry about your appeal i'm no expert but it does seem v harsh i wonder if appeal panels ever accept that even without extenuatng circumstances the VR test must get it wrong sometimes and in the face of other evidence of academic suitability allow appeals, i would echo what others have said on your other thread and with experience from my own dd who failed; with that kind of academic achievment i'm sure she will do well at upper school or be succesful at 12+ or even ks3 entry where the assesment is more on academic basis, anyway all the best

[Etienne]

I believe the clause of extenuating circumstances should be written out and this would make the appeal system much fairer as all children would be judged on their academic ability and not if someone was ill or has died, people play on this even if the illness was 2 years previous.

I don't believe this to be true. An appeal panel will look very carefully at the circumstances and weigh up whether they really had an effect. And the further back in the past the event happened, the harder it may be to convince the panel. See:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... rs.php#b10

But we're straying off-topic again. This thread is about the format of the 11+ .....

[Tree]

Sorry Etienne (does anyone else find Etienne scary, wonderful, amazingly helpful and v smart, but also v scary) anyway i'm really pleased how this thread has gone in summary i think we could start to formulate a manifesto for change:

We the undersigned feel these truths about the bucks 11 plus to be self evident:

There needs to be a wider spectrum of testing definatly incorporating NVR as well as VR and possibly maths english and science

An improvement in the upper school education and matching of children to schools moving away from success(pass 11+ go to grammar) fail(fails 11+ go to upper) to a process of assesment and suitability for a range of different secondary schools ; grammars uppers and comprehensives.

More movement of pupils between schools during KS3

Free doughnuts for all families taking the tests (couldn't think of anything else)

[Sally-Anne]

Sorry Etienne (does anyone else find Etienne scary, wonderful, amazingly helpful and v smart, but also v scary)

Never scary, although we do share the AppealsBox with one another, year in year out, which helps, but she is certainly "wonderful, amazingly helpful and v smart"!

I have to say that more movement during KS3 is an idea that I have been mulling over today. It has huge implications for the children, especially socially. I know from having a 12+ success in the family that it is not easy to transfer at a "non-standard" point of entry, but that should not rule out the possibility. There are always children who turn out to be wrongly placed, either through qualifying or appeals.

The most insurmountable problem would be the parents whose children are being mooted as candidates to leave a GS.

You get my vote on the doughnuts every time though! Are there extra doughnuts for appeal helpers and Bucks moderators? If so, best make that 2 each for Etienne and me.

S-A