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 Post subject: Bucks 12+
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:08 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7029
mutley wrote:
We have told the twins school the outcome of our daughter's appeal as they were strongly supporting our case and both the head and class teacher have recommended that she should try for the 12+ as they still firmly believe she should be at a grammar school. If this is an option for us and as we understand it the 12+ test is the same as the 11+ test but taken in year 7, but the time allowed to do the test reduced by 5 minutes. Is it correct that the 12+ and indeed the 13+ tests are prompted by the upper school during the child's first year/second year? Does anybody know when and where they sit the test?

We would welcome some advice on this if anyone can help.

Good luck to all appealers out there.

Dear Mutley

The Bucks 12+ is taken in the summer term of year 7. I think it's usually at one of the local secondary schools. Don't assume that your upper school will take the initiative. You need to fill in an application form and submit to Admissions in the autumn before the stated deadline. It would be wise to discuss this with the upper school as they will be asked for a report in January. (NB: RGS and Beaconsfield High are foundation grammar schools and handle their own arrangements for 12+ testing.)

The current BCC booklet is available here:
It's too soon for the Sept. 2008 booklet.

Here are some previous posts:

Etienne, in Dec. 2005, wrote:
I think the 12+ is a bit unpredictable in that a single test can produce an erratic result (the three tests used in the old 11+ gave a more reliable picture). It is also different from the 11+ in that it is standardised on a national scale, with an average of 100 (whereas the 11+ is standardised specifically for Bucks, with an average of 111). I understand that County are reviewing the late selection test, but I have no idea whether or when they will make any changes.

There is no automatic right to sit the 12+. County will require a report from the school, and this will be crucial in getting accepted for testing. It is worth appealing if testing is refused - this is one type of appeal where panels tend to give the "benefit of the doubt". For most appeals the average success rate is around 30%. For appeals against refusal to test I would estimate that the figure is closer to 90%!

In addition to the 12+ (and possibly the 13+!), your son could try the 14+ in year 9 (for year 10 entry). This is administered by individual grammar schools, and is very different because it includes subject tests (usually English, Science, Maths as a minimum). Verbal Reasoning is omitted or is only a part of the procedure, and this might suit your son better.

Etienne, in May 2006, wrote:
Apparently Admissions have been using the following (hitherto unpublished?) criteria in determining whether or not a child is allowed to sit the late selection test for KS3 entry:
1. Two level 5s at KS2
2. Above average predictions for KS3 - where available (schools may be understandably reluctant to make predictions for pupils who are only in year 7).

Children who do not have two level 5s or are expected to achieve average/below average KS3 results, are likely to be refused entry to the late selection test, even if they have the headteacher's full support. It is possible that the 11+ score, if there is one, will also be taken into account.

Applications for children who do not do SATs (e.g. those at private school) are presumably judged on their own merits. I assume that Admissions will be looking for a very high standard in English, Maths and Science.

Appeal panels are not bound by these criteria (if parents decide to appeal against refusal to test). They may take into account all factors, such as whether a respectable score was achieved at the 11+, the level of support from the school, and any mitigating circumstances. Historically, appeal panels have tended to uphold appeals against refusal to test, except where the candidate appears to stand very little chance of passing.

Grammar schools continue to handle the arrangements for entry into year 10/11.

There is no guarantee that a place will be available for a successful 12+ candidate. In the event that no place was available at your preferred grammar school, you would have the right to go to a transfer appeal.

If you type "late selection test" into this site's searchbox, you will pick up some of the other previous posts about the 12+.

Good luck!


 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:13 am 
Recently the 12+ has been scheduled in the Easter holidays - usually taken in a large group at a local Upper school. Some children who need special arangements e.g. extra time sit at County Hall.

There is only one paper and the answer sheet is different.

Results came in May with a wait to find if a place could be found to mid June.

There are likely to be more places this year as I know 7 Grammar schools had places.

 Post subject: 12+
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:38 am 
Dear Etienne and Guest 55

Thank you both for your quick responses there is a lot to digest. We are very confused at the moment as to which way will be the best direction for our daughter but many thanks for all the very good advice.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:17 pm 
My child sat the 12+ - so glad to pass on anything we found out.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7029
Dear Mutley

Thank you for prompting this thread. I feel sure it's going to be of interest to other parents as well ..............

It fits better in this section, as the 12+ arrangements we are discussing are very specific to Bucks.

If you need any further help, please ask and I'm sure someone will have an answer. Patricia, for example, can provide expert guidance when it comes to preparation for the test.

Best wishes


 Post subject: 12+
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:54 pm 
Thanks Etienne

I do hope that the thread helps others in the aftermath of appeals and beyond. We are pondering the situation of the 12+ at the moment but also feeling the after effects of the appeal process. So we will glady come back if we need to for some more advice and we will keep looking at this thread.

Thanks again

 Post subject: 12 plus
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:40 pm 
We went through the 12 plus process and where successful in both result and getting a place at the grammer of our choice. Sibling rule helps in the allocation of places so with Twins that will help. Because we had a sibling at the grammer we knew that there were 6 places ( however children transfering into the county can sit 12 plus and get immediate placement so availible places can change)You will have to approach the upper school in year 7 and apply by Jan 2008, test will be Easter 2008 result May and allocation June and transfer is always in the September of year 8. It is a bit of a lottery but it worked for us.
It seems ages away but it has been well worth it for us after the appeal failed we felt numb but you get through.

 Post subject: 12+
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:03 pm 
Thanks for the information on the positive outcome of your 12+ experience, although we feel our daughter would be capable in a grammar school at this juncture we need to first see how she gets on at her upper school because although we are not suggesting on giving up on her we feel we need to find out for us as parents but more importantly if she feels it would be the right thing for her to go through the 12+.

A lot to think about over the coming months.

Thanks again.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:31 pm 

Just been reading this post and I am in a similar position. My daughter only just missed by one mark in one test and two marks in the second test but the appeal was unsuccessful.
You say that 12+ has a different answer sheet - can you explain the differences please?

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:40 pm 
On the 11+ sheet the answers are in words, for example:
Type H
In each question find two words, one from each group, that are the most opposite in meaning:
(start finish waste) (condemn commend commence)

In 11+ answer sheet would be:

start ..... condemn ......

finish .... commend .....

waste .... commence ......

and the pupil marks against the right words [sorry can't draw boxes!]

In the 12+ the question would be written

In each question find two words, one from each group, that are the most opposite in meaning:
A start B finish C waste D condemn E commend F commence

and the answer sheet

A ... D ....
B .... E ....,
C .... F .....

So you do not have the help of the 'words' on the answer sheet

You do get sent 5 examples which is not really very helpful ... I did not find any papers with answers coded like this - perhaps someone else did

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