Go to navigation
It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:01 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Fraudulent applications
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7063
Fraudulent applications - for the 2011 admission round, a ‘whistle blowing’ telephone number is to be introduced in Bucks. This was a suggestion made by the Office of the Schools’ Adjudicator in a recent report to aid admission authorities with the detection of fraudulent applications.

Other factors may also alert any admission authority to the possibility that something may be wrong, e.g:
- a move from a relatively expensive area or house to a cheap rented flat above shops, especially if there is no evidence that the house has been sold.
- child still attending school in the old area if it is a fair distance away
- only part of the family supposedly living at the new address
- no real evidence of occupation of the new address (utility bills etc.)
- no timely reply to letters sent by admission authority or school to the new address

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Wirral
Oh my word. You hear of these things going on in some areas, but to find the extent of the problem is astounding. Perhaps then, it is a plus point of the fair banding system? It would at least reduce the scenarios mentioned here - as boundary rules generally don't apply :?: :!:

_________________
Inside of every mother is a school girl wondering what the *ell just happened???


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 866
Think I must have got the wrong ferry back from Brittany! Seems like the Soviet Union circa 1965!
Parents who enter their children for the 11+ do not know whether they will pass or not. If they pass then these so called fraudulent parents probably will move permanently to the area. If the child does not pass then they will probably stay where they are and send them to a comp rather than a secondary modern.
The parents are probably all uk taxpayers and as such are paying for all uk schools anyway.
What a deeply unpleasant thought that people will inform on each other anyway.
I must say that France, despite the dreadful weather, was a breath of fresh air - not overcrowded, ample free parking everywhere, not a parking warden in sight and carefully labelled speed cameras at obviously dangerous bits of road and that lovely M. Sarkozy talking sense all the time!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 1770
Location: caversham
magwich2 wrote:
What a deeply unpleasant thought that people will inform on each other anyway.


Here lies the path to Anarchy In The UK, no rules, no support for the rule of law. Stealing a school place is a serious moral and economic crime!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Magwich

Clearly any views on the issue depend on whether you believe there should be rules governing school admissions in the first place. The rules in Bucks use catchment areas designed to ensure that children living locally to a school have a greater right to attend that school than those who do not live locally to it. This is a basic example of the impact of a fraudulent application within our system.

Child A was born and bred in the catchment area for a very popular Bucks grammar school. Unfortunately he lives towards the boundary of the school’s catchment area. Places are allocated by distance so he may not receive a place if the school is over-subscribed with applicants who live nearer to the school.

Child B lives outside catchment but near enough to travel to the same oversubscribed school. The parents rent out their house and move temporarily to a flat within a stone's throw of the popular grammar school and make a fraudulent declaration of their home address.

Both children qualify in the 11+. Child B receives a place at the very popular school, but Child A does not. Child A may not even receive a place at his 2nd or 3rd preference catchment grammar schools because they are also oversubscribed, possibly because people are playing the same game as Child B’s parents.

magwich2 wrote:
Parents who enter their children for the 11+ do not know whether they will pass or not.
Of course not, but do you really think that they haven’t lined up the fallback option? These are the sort of parents who leave nothing to chance and, although the alternative is often private school, failure to qualify in Bucks does not rule out state school options elsewhere. (I am not going to post details of that for what I hope are obvious reasons.)

Quote:
If they pass then these so called fraudulent parents probably will move permanently to the area.
No matter that Child A has been denied their rightful place because of the fraudulent application? Why does moving to the area permanently make it all OK?

Even those who do move into catchment may still be benefiting from their original fraudulent application further down the line. If both Child A & Child B have younger brothers, when Child B2’s turn comes he will get sibling priority for the oversubscribed school, even if he lives further away from the school than Child A2.

Quote:
If the child does not pass then they will probably stay where they are and send them to a comp rather than a secondary modern.
Oh, no they won’t! These parents are not the sort to risk their child ending up at a Bucks Upper school, the quality of which can vary considerably. (See my comments above on what happens if the child doesn’t qualify.)

Quote:
The parents are probably all uk taxpayers and as such are paying for all uk schools anyway.
As are the parents of Child A!

Quote:
What a deeply unpleasant thought that people will inform on each other anyway.
What do you perceive to be the moral difference between informing on someone who is attempting to gain a school place fraudulently and someone cheating the benefits system? Or someone who gains a council house place fraudulently? Or someone who drives while drunk? Admission rules are legally enforceable in the same way as every other aspect of the law of the land.

Sally-Anne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 866
Do you know many of "these parents"?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Magwich

Quite simply, "Yes".

Sally-Anne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:19 pm
Posts: 517
Location: bucks
Nicely argued sally-anne

I wonder if you could have points system (like emmigrating to australia) which was say points for siblings points point for every year you have lived in catchment divided by points to do with distance from school etc. so if you have lived in the community for a long time then you are benfited etc what do you think ?? This would sort of sidestep the problem and make fraudulent claims not worth the risk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Tree

Tree wrote:
Nicely argued sally-anne
Thank you! It is a little soap-box that I keep tucked away under the stairs for use occasionally. :)

I do feel sorry for parents who live in the more difficult "grey areas" of various school catchments, particularly when they have lived here for many years, if not generations in some cases.

Quote:
I wonder if you could have points system (like emmigrating to australia) which was say points for siblings points point for every year you have lived in catchment divided by points to do with distance from school etc. so if you have lived in the community for a long time then you are benfited etc what do you think ?? This would sort of sidestep the problem and make fraudulent claims not worth the risk
Sadly, probably not. It might not be legal under the Admsissions Code for a start, and the administration would be horrendous. Just two points against it.

I would be reluctant to see any significant change in the whole admissions process to combat fraudulent applications that could impact negatively upon large numbers of genuine applicants. For me it would be the tail wagging the dog.

There are certain hot-spots within Bucks, and Admissions know where they are. Scrutiny of those has been going on for many years, although there are inevitably limits to the effectiveness of any such investigations.

Changes to admission rules for certain schools are perhaps one way forward - the recent change to the admission rules (and specifically the residence requirement) for DCGS is one of those. There are a few apparently completely innocent people who have been caught up in that, which is certainly a shame, but it should also resolve the problem in the medium term at least.

One option under consideration at present, after a review by an independent advisor, is the possibility of "random allocations within catchment". If anyone has a further interest in discussing that I suggest that it should be a new thread, because it would be wrong to categorise it purely as a solution to fraudulent applications. It would potentially help with that issue, but it would more generally be aimed at reducing the overall level of dissatisfaction with allocations among parents in certain pressurised catchment areas.

Sally-Anne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 464
Location: South Bucks
it certainly bothers me that a child in my son's class and who travels on the same bus has clearly used his grandmothers address to gain a place at the school and on the bus (which local, not UK, tax payers fund)!

He is dropped of at his gran's each morning and goes home each night to his out of county home in a lovely area with lower house prices and better amenities for children which are free or heavily discounted for local (to his area) children (ie MY children could not benefit). Doesn't seem fair to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016