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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:30 pm 
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Location: bucks
This came out of discussions following the stats on in country vs ooc and independant pass rates.

I wondered if using the combined expertise here on the forum it would be possible to get some idea on on a method for predicting what kind of chance your dc has in passing the bucks VTR at the outset before any significant preparation.

Ok so my feeling is that we can make an estimate of the effect of say 6 months or more coaching based on the ideas for preparing for the 11+ given on this forum which in principle are :

1 / get used to the types of questions
2 /start practicing some easier tests
3/ work on vocabulary
4/ work on codes aiming for 100%
5/ increase levels of difficulty of tests and timing

or soemthing like that my feeling is (based on personal experience with my dc's and the difference in the mean result of bucks vtr taken in bucks with that taken nationally) that steps 2 - 5 probably increase a childs vtr score by around 5-10 raw score marks, i would be really interested in whether the tutors agree with this in a ballpark sense.

So if you work out what your dc will need to pass ie 67ish for aug born and 72ish for sept born. You then complete stage 1 of the steps above so they are familiar with the questions and then get them to take a few tests and see what they get if they get 5 less than they need they they have a v good chance of passing and if they get 10 less then its gonna be hard work, then my feeling is this could be a good way to get some idea of potential chance.

What does everyone think??


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:18 pm 
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Sounds interesting but I am not sure it is quite as simple as that, I am not sure that there is any real way to make estimations with any degree of accuracy. My DD started off after initial learning how to do question types at about 55/80 and after practicing actual papers over a period of time ended up with 77 or 78/80 ( in the final 2 bucks practice papers before the test) We do not know, obviously, what her actual results will be but you would hope that this would be enough.
I am fairly convinced it has to do with not only natural ability to do the type of test but the attitude and confidence of the child as the big day approaches. If they are buzzing with enthusiasm and feeling good about themselves they are likely to do better than if they are nervous and have been coached out of their skins, terrified of failure.
This is just my experience, I would be really interested to hear everyone elses take on this subject.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:30 pm 
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My 2p worth:

Generally, the more tests you do the better/quicker you get - in the early stages even if a child is scoring 60/80 I think with practice they can achieve the pass mark. After having done a large amount of tests your self confidence is bound to be sky high.

Technique is an important factor and I would place it alongside knowledge.

It is a bit of a lottery - some of the vocab questions are pot luck. You may have "good" vocab but on the day if there is a word you have not come across then you may get the question wrong. That is why it is important to get all the "bankers" (code/numbers etc) right.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:50 am 
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I think speed it very important in the bucks test and only comes with practice so it depends how you do the initial assessment- timed? Or do you assume they will speed up and just see if they can do the questions. My feeling is a lot of the children would pass if they have unlimited time and so accuracy under time pressure is what separates them in the end.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:58 am 
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scary mum wrote:
I think speed it very important in the bucks test and only comes with practice so it depends how you do the initial assessment- timed? Or do you assume they will speed up and just see if they can do the questions. My feeling is a lot of the children would pass if they have unlimited time and so accuracy under time pressure is what separates them in the end.



I wouldn't do this to begin with. I think the important thing is to become familiar with the format first. My DD panicked when I first introduced a clock and this affected her performance, so I told her just to work as quickly as she could and I timed her "informally", discreetly making note of where she was at the end time and letting her finish the paper. Once she was close to finishing within the required time we reintroduced the clock, and she was fine.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Oh, I agree, sorry I wasn't suggesting you time them staright away, I was saying that if you test them and they get them all right, it doesn't mean they will do so under time pressure.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:02 pm 
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I wonder if anyone has done any analysis (if it is at all possible) over the percentage of Bucks children scoring 121:

1. For each Level at the end of Year 5 or forecact Level at the end of Year 6. i.e. x% of Level 4a children score 121 and y% of Level 5c etc.

2. From the Gifted & Talented registers.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:19 pm
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Location: bucks
interesting replies i think it may well be that the difference between kids is so large that it would be really hard to get any claer idea at the outset i thought bucksdaddys idea was interesting but i know quite a few kids with top sats marks who have failed the 11 plus in bucks as it's such a specific test, on thing is the vocab i think if uyour vocab is poor then this is the biggest hurdle to overcome??


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:50 am 
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Location: Bucks
I think CATs (if your school does them) give you an indication whether they are good at VR, Q or NVR.

DS was excellent in VR and NVR not quite as strong in Q but we also had a EP assessment that gave us a good indication that all VR scores were similar.

DD however has always hated reading - and her vocab is not very strong so struggles with VR but is excellent in Q and NVR and again this is reflected in her CATs. She is Year 5 and we have just started to look at the 11+ question types. Any maths based ones she loves, Type Z she adores, the Vocab ones it is hit and miss some she is good at others she is really struggling.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Quote:
i thought bucksdaddys idea was interesting but i know quite a few kids with top sats marks who have failed the 11 plus in bucks as it's such a specific test

It is indeed a very different measurement of ability.

There would also be a problem using G&T data, as G&T is relative (i.e. a fixed percentage of pupils within an individual school have been identified as gifted & talented).

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