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 Post subject: Distance measurement
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:17 pm 
I remember reading somewhere on this forum (can't find it!) that BCC bases their home to school distance measurement on the AA Routemaster system. I tried this and was disappointed that it came up with a longer route than the one we normally take, resulting in a distance about two miles outside this year's allocation limit. When I asked for the route we actually take, it was about half a mile under. I drive this route regularly and know that we are actually one mile within this year's allocation profile. The question is this: when we apply for our second child two years from now (sibling priority won't count by then) and assuming he qualifies, do we have to wait for BCC to get it wrong and then appeal, or is there any way we can specify the distance beforehand to avoid all the heartache of an appeal when we would probably be inside the allocated area?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7065
According to the Parents' Guide to Secondary Schools (page 12), BCC uses Ordnance Survey 'Integrated Transport Network' data, plus a database of footpaths.

I'm afraid it's inconceivable that Admissions would accept measurements provided by parents in advance of the allocations.

_________________
Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:09 am 
A couple of errors here. Firstly, the LEA does not use AA's Routemaster:
Quote:
We use a database that combines the
Ordnance Survey ‘Integrated Transport Network’
(ITN) data as at 17 November 2006 plus a database
of footpaths, entered on our system before 17
November 2006, which have a proper made-up
surface such as tarmac or concrete.


Also, you can contact the LEA to ask them to accept a route which you feel they have not taken into account:
Quote:
If you think that
your child’s ‘shortest appropriate route’ may include
footpaths or roads which may not already be
included in our database, please check this with us
before 17 November 2006.


(Both from the current LEA Admissions guidance).

As ever, a quick call to the LEA would establish this info. I really really recommend that people check things such as this with the authority. This forum has invaluable advice, but it is not infallible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:52 am 
Thank you for your replies, Etienne and Guest. This:

Anonymous wrote:
Also, you can contact the LEA to ask them to accept a route which you feel they have not taken into account:
Quote:
If you think that
your child’s ‘shortest appropriate route’ may include
footpaths or roads which may not already be
included in our database, please check this with us
before 17 November 2006.


(Both from the current LEA Admissions guidance).

was precisely the information I was after. I just wanted to make sure that the route we take was registered before we applied for child no 2. After all, even the road signs around here send you the "long" way :? ! The fact that the signposted route is regarded as the "normal" route even puts people off applying, in my opinion, as it takes so much longer and nobody ever bothers to find out if there is a quicker way. We only found it by chance!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Guest

I think Etienne has made it quite clear that Bucks does not use the AA system.

As the OS ITN system is not available to the general public I assume you mean that the only way parents can find out the distance measurement computed by Bucks from home to school in advance of 17 November 2006 is by calling Admissions?

If one wished to dispute the distance, what evidence would Bucks then accept in such a dispute?

The issue here, as demonstrated by the first post on this thread, is that many first-time parents will believe that they are comfortably within catchment. The first they learn of a problem is on March 1st the following year when the allocation profile changes for demographic reasons particular to that year, and they realise that they are beyond the distance of the allocation profile, despite being in catchment.

By the way, none of us has ever suggested that this forum is infallible - we are all volunteers offering our best advice. If that advice is incorrect it is usually because the rules are not transparent to start with. I think this is a case in point.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:51 pm 
Sorry - I missed the part of Etienne's post where she explained about the LEA system.

I am afraid I don't know what evidence the LEA would accept "if there was a dispute", but I think the point is that there might not be a dispute at all - no system can easily capture ALL the private (but publicly passable) roads, footpaths ("with a proper made-up surface such as tarmac or concrete" - LEA guide) etc in an area, so the LEA is reliant on (and would, I think, welcome) people drawing such routes to their attention, in order for them to be incorporated in the database.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7065
Apologies accepted, dear Guest. :D

With regard to measurement, I was answering the specific question "Is there any way we can specify the distance beforehand?"

You are right to point out that footpaths etc. can be checked with the database. Admissions will consider alternatives up to the cut-off date because they will want to resist the introduction of any alternative routes at subsequent appeals.

_________________
Etienne


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 Post subject: Distance measurement
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:53 am 
Ordnance Survey seems to suggest that the website transportdirect dot info uses ITN.

If using this, you must select the shortest route in the advanced options but it does seem to calibrate to what the admissions team have told me.


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 Post subject: Transportdirect dot info
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:33 pm 
I'm glad someone else has found www.transportdirect. info [I also can't get the URL to work!]

The admissions team gave me their ITN distance from the Misbourne to my house and it matches transportdirect (bar the extra decimal points). The ITN distance does NOT match the AA Routemaster measurement - the latter suggested a further 0.2 miles despite using the same route.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:23 pm 
I've tried this, too - the ITN measurement matches the measurement calculated by BCC, however only after I specified which route to take (using "via" in advanced options). I had also mentioned this to BCC when requesting the information. According to ITN, the nearest route by road is about 3 miles further!!!


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