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 Post subject: Please explain 12+ to me
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 238
Location: london sw
Hi
We live in London with a son who has been unsuccessful with Tiffin. We do not live in the catchment area of another grammar. We are probably going down the private route but are apprehensive as we have another son who is also very bright but experience has taught us that Tiffin is incredibly difficult to get into.
We are now considering moving house to a county that has more than 1 grammar school so that our second son may stand a chance of getting a grammar school education- we certainly can't afford tp pay for 2 lots of school fees.
I keep coming across the 12+ exam discussions but don't understand who they are for. If we moved to Buckinghamshire could we enter our son for a Grammar school at the age of 12? It all sounds too good to be true, are there really places available for year 8?
Any advice or information would be welcome.

Jenny Wren :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Jenny Wren

This could be "out of the frying pan, into the fire", but here goes!

If you want your son to sit the 12+ you must be able to demonstrate residency in Bucks. You will need to check the exact requirements for that on the Bucks CC website.

Then you must be very sure that your son has a good Verbal Reasoning ability. The Bucks 11+ is two tests of NFER VR, the 12+ is one test of VR, made harder because it is 5 minutes shorter and 5 extra questions. However, it is considered to be easier than the 11+ because it is standardised for age against a national sample, rather than the more "exclusive" Bucks sample for the 11+.

Yes, there are places at Bucks schools this year because the size of the cohort is smaller than in previous years. That is predicted to remain the case for another two years. However, places for 12+ candidates are allocated on a strict "distance from school gates" policy, so you would need to be very close indeed to your preferred GS to get a place. And please note this above all else: even if your child passes the 12+ there is still no guarantee that they will be allocated a GS place - places are no longer reserved for 12+/13+ candidates as they were until a couple of years ago.

All that may leave you feeling totally dismayed at the idea. However, if you do your research thoroughly, and come back to this forum for advice, I think you may find the solution you are looking for. Provided your son can do Verbal Reasoning!

Good luck - come back whenever you need to.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Jenny

The following link is from the Bucks website....

http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse ... cedure.pdf

Just to add to Sally-Annes post. Should you apply to the Royal Grammar school, the Late transfer test [12/13+] set by Bucks County is not applicable. The RGS set their own entrance exam for year 8 and above.

The Tiffin VR is no harder than the Buck exam, its just harder to get into Tiffin due to the incredible amount of children applying.

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Clever Patricia - posting links has never been my strength!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:58 am 
do you know if the 12+ exists in Southend?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:34 am 
Sally-Anne wrote:
If you want your son to sit the 12+ you must be able to demonstrate residency in Bucks.


That's interesting Sally-Anne - have you been told that by Bucks? If so, they are acting unlawfully by refusing applications from non-Bucks residents. The Greenwich judgement established, for ALL admission applications, that it is unlawful to discriminate against someone applyiing for a school place simply because they live outside the LA's administrative area.

To the OP - I would check this with Bucks, and if they say your child cannot apply for the 12+ if you are not Bucks-resident, say that this is not lawful.

I would add, though, that it is NOT unlawful to refuse to test a child if they do not reach what the LA says is the required standard for testing (although you can appeal that decision). Nor is it unlawful, if a child passes the 12+ to refuse an admission if there are no available places. But the bottom line is, if your child is qualified, and there are available places, you could live hundreds of miles away and still have to be awarded the place you apply for.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Guest, you are quite right - my apologies to Jenny for the misleading statement. Your child can sit the 12+ for Bucks even if you live in Aberdeen. However, to then be given a place you need to prove that you live in or near Bucks - the following quote from Patricia's clever link:

Quote:
You will be required to provide proof of residence before being offered a grammar school
place.


Realistically, to get a school place via the 12+, you do need to live in Bucks, and even better, live a few doors away from your preferred school!

There is less pressure on GS places this year, but the 12+ is still a huge lottery.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:21 am 
Sally-Anne, I'm afraid I don't agree. If you live outside Bucks and your child passes the 12+ AND you apply for a Grammar school which has places in year 8, your child HAS TO be admitted. As I understand it, both Burnham Grammar and Sir Henry Floyd are very likely to have places free in year 8.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Guest

Sally-Anne, said 'realistically' you need to live in Bucks...

Yes there seems to be more places than normal, but there will still be more children taking the test than there are places.

The places are offered by the normal admissions rules, not score, so the closer you are to the preferred grammar the better....

See the following link....last paragraph page 9

http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse ... cedure.pdf

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Anonymous wrote:
Sally-Anne, I'm afraid I don't agree. If you live outside Bucks and your child passes the 12+ AND you apply for a Grammar school which has places in year 8, your child HAS TO be admitted. As I understand it, both Burnham Grammar and Sir Henry Floyd are very likely to have places free in year 8.


However, Guest, the places are still allocated according to distance from school gates! The child only HAS to be admitted provided the place isn't given to someone who lives closer to the school!!

Hence, it remains a lottery, and my advice to Jenny stands - if you want to have any chance of a place, you need to be as close as possible to your preferred school. There are a small number of "pockets", particularly on the Bucks/Berks border where a child from another county would gain a place on the distance rule, but the same does not apply on the Bucks/Herts border, nor the Bucks/Northants border.

The following quote is from the Bucks 12+ document:

Quote:
There are only a very limited number of spaces in grammar schools and this changes over time. So, there can be no guarantee of a grammar school place for a child who qualifies through LTP, as vacancies are usually only as a result of another child leaving one of the grammar schools. Only a small number of pupils who qualify though the Late Transfer Process each year are offered a grammar school place.


There are 7 Bucks Grammar Schools with places in year 8 at the present time.


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