12 plus

Eleven Plus (11+) in Buckinghamshire (Bucks)

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anotherdad
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by anotherdad »

You should provide evidence of the extenuating circumstances that led to the reading result being below the teacher's assessment but actually, the bigger obstacle is the level 4 in the writing teacher assessment, which was backed by the test result. BCC's rules for 12+ are quite clear that it must be a T/A at level 5 in writing. I would have thought that you need to convince the appeal panel that in writing, both the T/A and the test result were incorrect.

It's a difficult one. You will be arguing that the teacher assessing his reading made an accurate judgement of your son's ability and that the test result didn't reflect his ability. Then you need to make the case that the (same?) teacher did not make an accurate judgement of your son's writing ability.....yet this inaccurate judgement was seemingly backed by the test result?
MollyB
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:42 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by MollyB »

Khanj101 I have been following your posts for sometime now and I am sorry you have had what seems such an up hill struggle trying to secure a place at a Grammar school for your son. I was very pleased to learn that he is enjoying his first term at school.I hope you do not mind me saying that it would appear that looking at the whole picture firstly not gaining the pass mark for the 11 plus and if I remember correctly he was some way off, I know you mentioned extenuating circumstances which could have had an adverse effect on his performance,however the panel were obviously not convinced.
Regarding the SATs results it would appear as the other post suggested you may end up contradicting yourself. Again extenuating circumstances were mentioned but the teacher assessments are usually a very good guide to a childs ability.I have had four children at Grammar school and I must say that I strongly believe that children who are bumping along at the bottom of the year group have a very difficult time I have seen this on many occasions over the years, it does have an effect on their self confidence, it must surely be a much better option if you put all your effort and good parenting skills which you obviously have into ensuring that your son is at the top of his year group at his present school, build his self confidence and praise him. I think it may make him feel as if he has been a failure if you continue to persue a Grammar school for this boy who may not be suited to Grammar school.
I would see how he gets on with his GCSE's and aim to send him to the Grammar school for A'levels.I hope I do not come across as a know it all I just feel that you must let go for now, concentrate on preparing your younger child and help your son to be a high acheiver in his new school. I wish you the very best of luck.
Looking for help
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Berkshire

Re: 12 plus

Post by Looking for help »

Here are my thoughts.....

I have had three at GS and one who failed to make the cut as we say in our very sporting house (golf :D ).

Of those three at GS, one scraped along at the very bottom of the heap(having got the pass mark only) and actually has left this summer with incredibly good results (at least as good as her siblings). Off to uni last week, a changed person.

My youngest who didn't make the cut, is on his way to outperforming all his siblings - but we will see.

The one thing that is the benefit of a GS is that it does make the biggest difference to those who just get in, and that has been my experience. Those very clever amongst us will always do well, the biggest issue is with the borderline kids.

Khanj10 - I can understand that you want the GS place for your child, that has been driving me mad for the past 4 years about my youngest. However, he has settled really well and is doing well and we are very hopeful that he will achieve his potential - however if we'd have had a half chance to reapply or whatever for year 8 entry we would have jumped at the chance. You have nothing to lose, and if 6 months from now you are succesful but you are happy where your child is, then you can leave it.

Good luck
MollyB
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:42 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by MollyB »

Looking for help congratulations to your child who has just started at University. my son goes next week!! Your child may have scraped along the bottom as you stated but she actually passed her 11 plus that was the point I was making, and also your child who did not pass and as you say may out perform all the siblings seems to be in a school which suits him/her.I feel that a panel may decide not to allow Khanj101's son to even sit the test because of the unconvincing academic evidence so far.This would be very upsetting for her, I think it is sometimes hard to just accept that some of our children are not just up to the Grammar school mark. Having said that they will all take the exact same GCSE's and A'levels regardless of where they went to school and that is what is most important.
khanj010
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:01 am

Re: 12 plus

Post by khanj010 »

molly b ihave taken your words on board but if i dont try i well regret it.
looking for help thanks for your reply and congrats on you ds on goin to uni.
What i feel is that even if my ds was at the bottom of the class at a gs school ( which im sure he wont be) is well placed there as i know he will be challenged and stretched to his full potential, then at a secondary school where he is at the top and kept behind because of children who struggle and who dont want to learn, i know this because i was one of these children ,who teachers did not challeng or pushed because of other children were always a piority then me or us , the teachers would give us work and let us get on with it and that is it. I hope i made my self clearer or am i just babbling :?
I know there may be a flip to this but everyone knows there child/ren so as perants we can just do the best for them even if there is a hartache at the end of the road. :(
anotherdad
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by anotherdad »

khanj010, I think everyone here understands and supports your need to pursue whatever course of action feels right for you. Ultimately only you can judge what is the right way forward and you are right not to hold unrealistic expectations of what you would consider to be a successful outcome.

I don't think anyone could argue with your wish for your son to be stretched and challenged and if an upper school is managed well and has good strategies for teaching and learning it will make lessons challenging for all levels of ability. In many schools, this is done extremely well.

My opinion - and it is only my opinion, not knowing anything other than what you have posted since last November - is that your son's 11+ results and subsequent SATs results and assessments combine to show that he is a very bright and capable student. However, under the selection framework used in Bucks he is deemed to be unsuited to a GS education at this stage. I've used italics because the outcome is not a reflection on him, it is a consequence of the LEA/individual schools' policy - a line is drawn somewhere and at one point in time and unfortunately, some parents of students in the margins either side will experience relief and others disappointment. The outcome does not have to define his entire education or life, nor should it dominate the start of his secondary education.

I'm afraid that you will probably be disappointed in your attempts to access the 12+ process. The BCC guidance is quite clear, as is the evidence you have available which doesn't meet the criteria. I think MollyB's advice is excellent: that you and your son focus your energies on getting the best possible results at 16 so that if he wishes, he has the option to move to a GS for A-levels.
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: 12 plus

Post by Sally-Anne »

khanj010, I am sure that at some point this half term the Upper School will administer CATs. I think that if you word your request very carefully the school might be happy to divulge the scores, although they will probably ask you not to tell your son what they are.

I suggest you ask them for the results so that you can a) take a reality check on your son's baseline ability and, b) potentially use them as evidence for a 12+ appeal to test.

The scores would need to be 110+ across the board as a bare minimum, and ideally the average should be around 125 or higher for a grammar school child.
SadDad
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by SadDad »

The schools seem to be very slow deciding exactly what the tests are to be. They refer you to Bucks, that refers you back to the schools, that have yet to decide.

If the chosen school is not a foundation school this probably makes things a lot simpler. I guess we still have over a month to get the application into Bucks but it is a little frustrating.

Anybody gets more concrete information please post here. We have tried to register for testing at both of our catchment schools but so far are only on a waiting list, for when more information is known.....

The rumour mill is turning!
scary mum
Posts: 8840
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by scary mum »

I heard of someone phoning one of the grammar school who are supposed to be administering their own tests and they were told that they weren't!
scary mum
SadDad
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: 12 plus

Post by SadDad »

Yes. It is all very frustrating

It doesn't really make any difference, it would just be nice to know!
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