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 Post subject: single paper passes
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi

As we all know the Bucks 11+ consists of two papers, 80 questions, 21 question types and a 50 minute time for each paper.

The pass is determined by the highest score on either of the two papers.

Therefore students who did not get a pass mark actually had two bites of the cherry and failed to achieve a pass mark twice.

The high pass rate required for entrance into the grammar schools is based on performance over about 15 question types, not the full 21 types. Although I appreciate that all 21 types need to be covered, because nobody should know the splits between the papers.

Would it be a good idea for Bucks to go for an aggregate score? The students would have to perform equally well across the two papers.

This could lead to the pass mark being driven down slightly, but would identify top performers easily.

On appeal parents could refer to a high mark in one test against a low mark in the other as indications that there may have been an issue with the lower marked paper.

Regards

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Mike

This used to be the way Bucks did it - on the average of the 2 papers. I believe that the change was made because it was felt that a child could have a bad day on one of the tests and therefore a pass on one paper was felt to be enough.

Obviously there are children who get in on - say - 121 and 113, who one might describe as borderline, but equally I know of children who scored 141/141 who aren't exactly shining at a GS!!

I don't think that the change would benefit anyone in particular, least of all children who are nervous about the test. I somehow doubt that the pass mark would get driven down in reality.

Believe me - the current system identifies the (supposed or actual) top performers very easily. I wish I could post you the graph that shows the distribution of 11+ scores in Bucks. There is a HUGE column on the right hand side for the 141 top mark - a much, much higher number than for any other score. Guest 55 or Etienne may know if is available on the Bucks website.

Best wishes
Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:28 pm 
Hi Mike

Bucks pupils used to sit three papers. The lowest score was discarded and the average of the highest two scores was taken. This was changed in 2004 (present year 8 )I believe which led to more children passing and the oversubscription fiasco which ensued. Things were so bad that RGS, for example,had to create an extra class. I assume that things were resolved the following year as I don't remember there being a huge outcry in the press as there was then.I think also that there was no Order of suitability in 2004 but it has since been brought back in.

Interestingly there also used to be a 'Review' of pupils who had failed which was the first port of call. Only if you failed to get in on 'Review' did an actual appeal take place. My elder son was awarded a place through review though if the present criteria of only taking the highest mark had been in place he would have sailed through!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Guest J

I have edited your post to get rid of the annoying smiley! If you post the number 8, followed by a bracket it thinks it's a smiley. As here: 8) leave a space after the bracket: 8 ) and it goes away.

Bucks chose an unfortunate year to make the change as there was a particularly large cohort, which is why there was a furore over numbers and admissions from some parts of the county. Last year, this year and next year are smaller by around 400.

The OoS was reintroduced in Autumn 2005 for the 2006 intake - current Year 7. The Heads hate it, but the appeal panels love it.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Mike

Bucks have been there done that regarding using average scores.

Nfer informed Bucks that the change over would not bring about a significant increase in qualifers.

Guestj

The review stage was withdrawn as it was considered to be illegal.

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11936
The graph of scores is in the booklet you get with the 11+ score - I can't find it yet on the Bucks website.

It is well known by Grammar school teachers that VRQ does not predict how well the child will do .. the KS2 NC tests scores are a much better predictor.

Pupils numbers in Jan 2006 - the first intake under new rules are Y7 - you will see some Uppers took an extra class too - it was a big cohort.

http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/leade ... n_roll.asp


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Guest55 wrote:
It is welkl known by Grammar school teachers that VRQ does not predict how well the child will do .. the KS2 NC tests scores are a much better predictor.


That is very interesting Guest55 - as you well know, my son achieved 3 x level 5s. Obviously it would be too late in the school year to use the SATs scores as an entrance qualification, but it really does highlight the weakness in the NFER test for Bucks.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:23 pm 
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I would prefer to see a mix of VR and NVR - you can spot those that won't cope in a Grammar as early as the first term Y7 -


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:31 pm 
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But.....The majorityof qualifiers do succeed, its a bare minimum that are unable to cope. Of those who cant cope there are varying factors, not necessarily because VR was used to select...

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:33 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
I agree with you Guest 55 - my son would have sailed through on a combination of VR plus any other test -apart from perhaps English. As English is the subject most closely related to VR that is no surprise.

The Bucks test is lopsided and the sooner they admit that, the better.


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