single paper passes

[Guest55]

What do you mean by over subscription problems? Currently 7 schools have empty places in Y7!!

The Bucks 11+ aims to select the top 30% - a very broad ability range.

I think the words 'easy' is somewhat insulting ....

[patricia]

Dear Mike

Next time I promise to read the question properly!

I am not aware of any statistics but I will have a look around. No it does not matter whether a child scores highly on one and fails miserably on another.

It may be seen as one of the easiest test formats, perhaps one of the main reasons for such a high minimum pass mark. Also do not forget when we standardise the average of 100 is not used, I think its currently 110.

Patricia

[Mike]

Hi Hugh

There is a distinct difference between VR and NVR and all the Maths based VR questions have a verbal base to them. Mathematics is a human language designed to explain the world around them. That is why it is verbal.

NVR on the otherhand contains nothing verbal within the question set with the exception of the instructions. Most NVR instructions can be written in any language and a student would be able to understand and complete the questions.

A Layperson could easily differentiate between VR and NVR by walking into WH Smith and looking at the types of questions in respective books.

Regards

Mike

[patricia]

About 7 years ago Bucks were thinking of moving over to NVR. One of the reasons being, a number of children from ethnic minorities where English was not their first language were being disadvantaged with VR [that vocab ] but within a couple of years of being at an upper, it became obvious that these children were in the 'wrong' school.

Bucks decided not to change over.

Patricia

[Mike]

Hi Guest55


Did I say the test was easy, or did I say that the testing format was the easiest in the country?

Regards

Mike

[Mike]

Hi Patricia

Just looked back over your postings and saw this

"Nfer informed Bucks that the change over would not bring about a significant increase in qualifers".

I thought the process would produce a significant decrease in qualifiers.

If NFER have so much influence with LEAs why don´t they suggest standardising tests across the country.

I don´t have any real problems with VR testing only, particularly if all 21 types are used.

In fact I would advocate increasing the question types, making the papers one hundred questions in fifty minutes and having an aggregate score pass mark.

This will certainly make the tutors work for their money!!!!

Regards

Mike

[Appeal Mum]

In fact I would advocate increasing the question types, making the papers one hundred questions in fifty minutes and having an aggregate score pass mark.

This will certainly make the tutors work for their money!!

COUGH.. Cough..

This isn't about the tutors, this is about the children! Why put even more pressure on 10/11 years olds?

I think it would just widen the gap between tutored and non tutored children.

AM

[Sally-Anne]

Sorry, previous post went awry! Let's try again:

VR does relate closely to ability in English.

True, but Bucks VR does include questions that to a layman would seem very much like NVR, e.g. questions that involve deconstructing mathematical patterns.

Hi Hugh

Thank you for correcting that earlier post - I was about to throw a little tantrum over you apparently editing my original post to suit your argument!

I agree with Patricia - why don't you register?

Mike

Bucks currently have by far the easiest 11+ format in the country, where a student can pass the test at about 85% on only 15 question types.

I think it's worth noting that the bar is set higher in Bucks than it probably is in some areas. The standardisation of the 11+ in Bucks is against a Bucks sample. As you know from the wit, expertise and combined brilliance of Patrica, Etienne, Guest55 and myself (I am last on the list), we're an intelligent lot around here! With good primary schools and plenty of pushy parents the bar is higher than it might otherwise be.

The 12+ is standardised against a national sample, and is therefore easier to pass. (I'm VERY cool with that concept, as you can imagine!) And that isn't just my view - Admissions say the same thing.

As a complete guess I would say that the difference is roughly 6 marks between the two.

What is the percentage pass rate in Wirral on your hugely more demanding test?

Best wishes
Sally-Anne

[Appeal Mum]

What is the percentage pass rate in Wirral on your hugely more demanding test?

Cough.. Cough.. Cough..

This cough is not getting any better!

I know that this year for the first time in many years the grammars in Wirral were substantially under subscribed.

The papers in Wirral have been getting tougher and tougher, so what might have been the case last year can't be said for this year.

I for one am looking forward to comparing this year’s data with previous years to see just how this year’s results compare.

As you are aware had my daughter sat the Bucks test she would have passed, she did extremely well on one paper and failed miserably on the other.
The same can be said for Sally-Anne if her son had taken the Wirral exam he would have had a good enough combined mark to allow a pass here.

There will always be people who disagree with either and or all 11+ formats, testing or scoring.
But if you want a place you have to play ball.

I think its outrages that as parent's we can compare different papers and say one child worked harder than another.
To have gained a place at any grammar or selective school is a privilege and to try to say one is harder than another belittles that fact.

AM

[Guest55]

Appeal Mum,

I agree totally - and that was my point about Mike's post - it is insulting to say one format is easier without comparing the height you have to jump to get over the bar!

Mike - thanks for such an articulate response - I note you ignored my point about the Grammars NOT being over subscribed.