Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:11 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:05 am
Posts: 35
Found this whole site a little too late :(

Would appreciate some advice if there are people viewing the forum that can help, either by way of posting or a PM/Email.

My child achieved the dizzy heights of 107 and 111 in her 11 plus, which was a total shock to people that know her and ourselves. We have thought hard about appealing, but are going ahead. Why?

1. A child a year ahead of them went through last year with the same scores. Although I would admit their pure academic skill look better at Maths, but not English.
2. The head has given my child a 1.1 and strong recomendation. They do not offer this support to many in the school
3. They were a 5C at English and 4A at Maths at the end of the last school year. 5's predicted for all three subjects with english 5B
4. In the top 25% in school rankings, but only just. In a reasonably good state school.
5. Strong creative english - noted in her primary school report and recently as one of only 3 stories chosen for an inter school competition.
5. Talked at length to my Mum and ex Deputy and Dad ex Chief Education Officer in two 11plus authorities.

Our family doesnt believe Grammar is the only place, hence I went to Secondary Modern after being offered a Grammar place and my youngest sister Grammar. We are also lucky that the Misbourne is there for us and we know lots of great kids coming out from there.

Looking at the appeal info I know that we have a major uphill task and winning the lottery might be easier, but we have submitted and have a date early in Jan :shock:

We are to a point grasping at straws as to why they failed. Ok I have had a tough time at work in the time leading up to the exam - yanks wanted to get out and spent time finishing my Masters degree in case of the job queue, but I'm not sure thats a great reason at all? They did have a poor nights sleep for the first test, but not the second. They knew they had a poor first test and the only thing there is that they put themselves under too much pressure - but they should and always have enjoyed and dealt with presure before.

My mum has noticed that they can rush work - typical of their Dad :o as they try to be first.

One thing that concerns us are:

1. Some friend have suggested an Educational psychologist. Would this help in this case? Why? Not sure we have enough time anyway.


As for the rest of the appeal, we will take in some school books showing their day to day work. We submitted the usual music reports and fact they are active in school life etc.

Any other advice on how we can demonstrate academic ability that the appeal panel would be appreciate, is appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 1647
Location: berkshire
There was a very good post by 'Etienne' who has been a member of the appeals panel. You can find it in this section (Buckinghamshire ) a couple of posts down from your one. If you go to page 3 of the topic 'Appeals' you should find it. It was very helpful in indicating what the panel are looking for. Good Luck


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
I won’t rehearse all the points in the earlier post to which Chad kindly refers, but perhaps I could elaborate on just one or two, and in response to the specific question about an ed. psych. report, I would add that such a report can sometimes be helpful. It consists of the results of a battery of tests (usually Wechsler or BAS) and perhaps a diagnosis.

The diagnosis might give some useful pointers, but the wording is often cautious (e.g. “These results could be indicative of mild dyslexia”), while a panel is probably looking for something more significant.

It’s difficult to make direct comparisons between different kinds of tests, and I think a degree of caution should be exercised. As far as the ed. psych. tests are concerned, they are not all timed. They are administered one-to-one, often at home, but in any event in a situation likely to be more relaxed than that of a classroom where 30 children are sitting the 11+.

It’s disappointing that some educational psychologists are no longer advising parents of the wide margin of error associated with a test result. There are “confidence band” tables that might say, for example, “with a score of x there is a 95% chance that the true score lies in the range 110-125”.

One only has to look at the variations that sometimes occur in a child’s 11+ scores (e.g. 119 and 109 with no obvious extenuating circumstances) to realise that these are not always precise meaurements! But at least the 11+ test is repeated, so the two scores might give a more reliable picture (at least where they are reasonably consistent!) Even better was the old 11+ with the test carried out three times.

NFER itself says “It is important to understand that, however carefully educational tests are constructed, an element of error is likely to appear in the results they produce. For individual children, marks and scores should not be taken completely at their face value; they provide only an estimate of a pupil’s ability.” I have written elsewhere about my reservations concerning the single test used for the 12+.

To get off my hobbyhorse, however, and return to Chins’ post, the panel will be interested to see how reliable the head’s other predictions have been. I can think of one head who will recommend something like 30 of her pupils, and round about 28-29 qualify! Sadly there are other heads who recommend three or even four times more pupils than actually qualify.

A headteacher who gives a 1 recommendation is expecting a score of 131-141. See the headteachers’ 11+ manual http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/docum ... 1_plus.pdf. The gap between 131-141 and 107-111 will, as Chins realises, take some explaining. You mention the tough time you’ve had at work, but with three 5s predicted your daughter’s routine work doesn’t appear to have suffered (and my experience is that routine work is likely to pick up motivational factors much more than the 11+).

How does the school manage its 11+ rankings, I wonder? Annual NFER or Richmond tests can provide useful evidence, although the different standardisation has to be taken into account. SATs predictions do not correlate well because they measure other qualities, e.g. motivation, perhaps even (to some extent) the ethos of the school!

The majority of successful appeals (over 85% last year) are for scores in the range 116-120. (A breakdown for each score last year can be found in the headteachers’ manual referred to above). The further away from 121 the score is, the stronger the case usually needs to be.

This is not to say that I don’t think you should be appealing - if in doubt, appeal! Only the panel that reads all the evidence and hears all the case is in a position to make any sort of judgement.

For the same reason – with knowing absolutely all the details - I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from the case you heard about that succeeded last year with similar scores to your daughter’s. In addition to all the facts of the case, there is the odd occasion when a panel will be impressed by a bit of evidence that parents might not have considered to be of any great significance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:05 am
Posts: 35
Etienne wrote:
It consists of the results of a battery of tests (usually Wechsler or BAS) and perhaps a diagnosis.

The diagnosis might give some useful pointers, but the wording is often cautious (e.g. “These results could be indicative of mild dyslexia”), while a panel is probably looking for something more significant


Our main problem is doing one of these in time. Dont even know anyone who could administer a test quickly?. I have slight feeling she might be very very slightly dyslexic, but its not been picked up at school. I would do one if I felt the panel would take the results of a battery of tests seriously. But again Ive just overy 2 weeks to go and we are in the Crimbo break.

Quote:
You mention the tough time you’ve had at work, but with three 5s predicted your daughter’s routine work doesn’t appear to have suffered (and my experience is that routine work is likely to pick up motivational factors much more than the 11+).


I tend to agree I'm afraid.

Quote:
For the same reason – with knowing absolutely all the details - I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from the case you heard about that succeeded last year with similar scores to your daughter’s. In addition to all the facts of the case, there is the odd occasion when a panel will be impressed by a bit of evidence that parents might not have considered to be of any great significance.


Its the issue of knowing what might influence and what might turn off an appeal panel member. As my dad has pointed out and being in sales I know that appearances can sway one way or another and that just pot luck. I do know the other appeal case very well and they probably had a stronger case. Last year the head only supported 9 pupils and 8 got through appeal. Not someone that uses the more I support the more might get through. I hope that as this year they have had to rank pupils, which didnt appear on the form last year it might help. Interestingly this year there is no predicted score. This year apparently 8/9 pupils have been supported again, but I dont know how many have 1:1's and strong support.

My own soapbox, but if you knew that in a year they could take the 12plus and if they passed they would be guaranteed a place then this whole process would be easier to cope with. Slightly off topic but if a child was placed in an independent lower school for the next year and then took the 12plus, are their chances of grammar school entry higher? I noticed one of the Wycombe schools advertising this.

Thanks for the input todate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Chins/Etienne

pdf file recommended doesn't need a dot at the end...try this

www.buckscc.gov.uk/schools/documents/ad ... 1_plus.pdf

The page Etienne is referring to is p 43

Superb advice Etienne [ as usual ]

Patricia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:18 pm 
Many thanks, Patricia.

As you say, Chins, it won't be easy to find an ed. psych. at such short notice, especially at this time of year. You could try ringing round. I'm afraid whether or not a panel would give a lot of weight to any psychological test results rather depends on what they are. The higher, of course, the better (if only to compensate for the difficulty of comparing different types of test!).

I suspect you're going to need something more than mild dyslexia as an extenuating circumstance, but if you would be interested in a professional opinion irrespective of the appeal, then it might be worth pursuing. Not sure what the going rate is these days. £75-£100?

The other problem is that the panel would hardly have time to digest the contents of such a report. If you do get one, be sure to turn up at the hearing with 6 copies, so that everyone present has their own copy, and offer to point out any significant findings.

It sounds as if your heateacher makes credible predictions, and that will help. My post of 12th December in the "Appeals" thread gives some further suggestions as to what (just in my view) could influence a panel.

The problem I have with the 12+, as I've written earlier, is its reliability. This could work in your favour, or to your disadvantage. And if your daughter were to pass, at 12+ (as you realise) there's no guarantee that there would be a place available.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear Etienne/Chins

Going rate for report.....£350/400 !!!.....quoted to me 2 years ago

I am in the wrong job!

Patricia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Ouch! Plus time-and-a-half during the festive season??!

I was thinking of a friend who was charged £75, but on reflection that was a decade ago ............

Even so, a 500% increase over a 10 year period is mind-boggling!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ed Psych
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:22 pm 
Dear Chins,

Try British Psychology Society www.bps.org.uk for an Ed Psychologist. On left hand side of their home page is option The Directory of Chartered Psychologists. You can select critieria to find an educational psychologist. Alternatively, if you think your child is dyslexic try The Dyslexia Institute www.dyslexia-inst.org.uk

Obviously time is very tight for you, but if you think that your child is dyslexic - even mildly - and can afford it and can find someone at such short notice I would say go for it. Having had two of my children assessed for dyslexia, what I can say is that the cost is approx £400 at the DI and anything upwards of this for independent EP. What I would also say is based upon my own experiences - don't be surprised that your school hasn't picked up dyslexia - the brighter a child is the harder it is for the school to spot. My eldest daughter has an IQ in the range of 130+ ie top 2%, her dyslexia was therefore classed as 'severe' owing to the gap of some 4 years between her academic acheivements and her potential. Her NFER scores when assessed at school were above average so the school didn't think that there was a problem. Therefore even if 11+ scores are above average this can still be well below what you would expect of a child if their IQ is really high.

Unless you know what your childs IQ is you cannot say whether your childs dyslexia is mild or severe, as this relates to the discrepencies in your childs skills and not how your child compares to his or her peers.

Hope this helps - happy to add more if any bits aren't clear or you want more info on this.

HP


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:05 am
Posts: 35
Thanks to everyone for the input. We have been working the phones this afternoon and have somehow managed to get an appointment with a local Ed Psychologist just prior to the test.

For us this we hope will confirm/indicate a couple of things.

1. Why she bombed. This has been hardest as everything prior to this has been A1 and we cant think of any major reason. Our only ones todate are rushing, putting herself under too much pressure and just not liking this type of test - a family trait.

2. In her later tests, what we could work on?

It might come back saying that the tests were a good indication and that a non selective school might serve her best. The Psychologist has indicated they wont pull any punches, which we appreciate.

We have asked for a one page summary to give to the panel, rather than a full report, which as mentioned before they will struggle to digest.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016