11+ training at primary school

[hugh]

If the school were shopped to Bucks CC, what are the council actually going to do ? If they do nothing, they would be seen as not enforcing the rules. If they get annoyed and imply that the school is "cheating"......well that doesn't exactly support their (and NFER's) claims that extra tuition is largely pointless !

Good point and page 11 of the booklet does indeed contradict itself in that way in consecutive sentences:
"Director of Children’s Services’ view that this is an
unacceptable practice and might undermine the integrity of the 11+ tests in
Buckinghamshire. The NFER has indicated that additional exercises (once ‘saturation
familiarisation’ has been reached) are likely to have marginal, if any, positive impact on
performance."

Incidentally, although it deems it "unacceptable" it gives no indication as to enforcemetn or penalites.

[Dad40]

This thread prompted me to ask around other parents at the school gate to see if anyone knew of schools that were "cheating".

A very clear (albeit still hearsay) message came back about one particular Bucks primary school who allegedly DO train their pupils.

I mentioned to my fellow parents that this wasn't possible because head teachers had to sign off that they had followed the rules [thanks Guest 55 !].

In return, I either got one of those "don't be so naive" looks or a reaction along the lines of "well I didn't tell you/you're not going to tell anyone are you ?"

A conspiracy of silence thus descends because (I think) most parents would rather see our school become like the "errant" school....as opposed to the errant school joining in with the Bucks policy (which no-one believes in if my straw poll is anything to go by).

I have to say that I'm with the conspiracy of silence on this one.

Any thoughts from the panel ?

[katel]

No I'm not in favour of the conspiracy of silence - this sort of behaviour from schools makes the system even more unfair than it is already. I think it is truely outrageous - and yes, I will be reporting the school near me that coaches its pupils so intensively.

[Dad40]

this sort of behaviour from schools makes the system even more unfair than it is already. I think it is truely outrageous

But why is it outrageous? The NFER and Bucks CC say that extra tutoring makes very little difference.....

So that's alright then

[patricia]

Dear Kate

Perhaps the policy is different in Kent, schools may be able to coach.

In Bucks it is totally prohibited. Only playground gossip suggests there is any thing other than the allowed familiarisation. Bucks County would come down hard on any school flouting the rules.

I am aware of a number of schools who supposedly coached, according to gossip of other schools, I can assure you that none of those schools fell foul of any illegal coaching.

Patricia

[ex]

I certainly know of one Bucks primary school where at least one of the teachers gives 11+ tution to their pupils, outside of school hours and not on school premises - which is their way round it I guess. They also charge for the tuition.

[Mike]

Hi

Don´t all teachers have a conflict of interest clause written into their contracts?

I used to employ a high school Maths teacher, and it was agreed that he would not tutor any students from his own school as this would be deemed to be a conflict of interest. There was no problem with him teaching students from other schools because they followed a different examination board.

I have also employed primary school teachers who work in Cheshire, where there are no grammar schools, to prepare children for the Wirral 11+. Because the teacher was employed by a different LEA we considered that there was no conflict of interest.

Ideally, it is better that a tutor is not a full-time employed teacher working privately with students from the same school or within the same LEA.

NFER do make some interesting statements undermining 11+ tuition. I wonder if any of the people who write such reports would consider not having their child tutored for the tests.

Regards

Mike

[Catherine]

If the school were shopped to Bucks CC, what are the council actually going to do ? If they do nothing, they would be seen as not enforcing the rules. If they get annoyed and imply that the school is "cheating"......well that doesn't exactly support their (and NFER's) claims that extra tuition is largely pointless !

Good point and page 11 of the booklet does indeed contradict itself in that way in consecutive sentences:
"Director of Children’s Services’ view that this is an
unacceptable practice and might undermine the integrity of the 11+ tests in
Buckinghamshire. The NFER has indicated that additional exercises (once ‘saturation
familiarisation’ has been reached) are likely to have marginal, if any, positive impact on
performance."

Incidentally, although it deems it "unacceptable" it gives no indication as to enforcemetn or penalites.

This is very good point. Either extra practice has an impact on performance, or it has not. If it has not, it can't undermine anything.

In my opinion, it is Bucks CC position that is totally unacceptable. They are the ones who are cheating parents by giving them false information. This sentence saturation
familiarisation’ has been reached) are likely to have marginal, if any, positive impact on
performance." does not even reflect accurately what the NFER says.
http://www.nfer.ac.uk/research-areas/as ... -child.cfm

I would support wholeheartedly any head who bends the rules.
At least, every pupil would benefit, instead of few lucky enough to have well informed, and able to pay, or able to DIY parents.

[Dad40]

Thanks Catherine (particularly for that web link).

However my reading of the linked research article DOES support what NFER and Bucks CC are saying. I agree it doesn't appear to support the policy if one only reads down to the third bullet point, but the article then makes clear what level of practice and coaching they mean (i.e. not much).

It doesn't however get away from the fact that there appears to be an inconsistency in Bucks' approach i.e. "extra tutoring is pointless but if you do it you're gaining an unfair advantage"(!)

I'm going to directly ask them in charge......

[Catherine]

However my reading of the linked research article DOES support what NFER and Bucks CC are saying. I agree it doesn't appear to support the policy if one only reads down to the third bullet point, but the article then makes clear what level of practice and coaching they mean (i.e. not much).

Reading the document again, I agree.
I got mixed up with another piece of info given on the forum:

NFER research has identified that much beyond 30 hours of coaching has no further effect - i.e. there is a maximum to the improvement you can 'coach'.

I got the information from an NFER 11+ information session -

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 3&start=30