Just Received Raw Scores for March Born DD

[Lillie]

Do not forget that it is equally unfair that children who live outside of Buckinghamshire also deserve really good schools. We pay the same taxes as everybody else and yet because the decision was made to close grammar schools in certain counties

It's not just that the grammar schools were closed "in certain counties". They were closed in the vast majority of the country when comprehensive education was introduced around 1970.

I cannot believe we are still stuck with this ancient argument in the Bucks system when the rest of the world moved on decades ago. The problem is that with the fully selective system in Bucks, the Bucks children who do not qualify, do not have the chance to go to an all ability comprehensive school. They are given a secondary modern, which although vastly better than what they were in the 1960s, in many cases still do not offer a full range of academic subjects (particularly languages). The head of our local upper school said at a recent talk that they find it very difficult to compare themselves to other schools in league tables, as there are so few of them in the country. So They are not comprehensives. The Bucks fully selective system means that the upper (aka secondary modern schools) do not have the full ability range of children and have the top 25 - 30% creamed off for the grammar schools. The upper schools therefore have to compete in a system where they have many of the more academically able children taken away from them.

[Jpk]

With respect my point is not really about the issue of catchment area, it is about schools and tutors who are cheating the system; the fact that it is out of catchment/out of county schools who are the main culprits merely adds salt to the wound to Bucks resident children. The majority will struggle to gain a place at an out of county comprehensive (as of course they have no right to one!) when they miss out on a grammar school place in their own county because of the inflated pass mark.

I agree entirely. Every year the pass mark seems to increase forcing Bucks residents into upper schools when they should have gained a place in a Bucks Grammar School. I would not feel so unhappy about the situation if out of county took the 11+ test at the same time as Bucks state schools.

I couldn't agree more. I know of one tutor who spent 45 minutes on the phone with one in-county child on the evening of the first test who then asked her mother why the tutor was so interested in the questions. Clearly,it was to brief the out of county children who would do the exam during half term. It isn't a level playing field

[Daddy123]

Why can't they have the tests on the same day even if it involves using some of the town halls or colleges, if they are short of space. Presume it will be taken care in future.

[Sally-Anne]

Logistics. This is from a post I made last year on the subject:

I have posted about this before, but it is simply not possible to test everyone at the same time. Firstly, there are 1,500 - 2,000 OoC testers each year. The tests at half term are taken in vacant Bucks schools. There is no such space available during term time/first week of October.

In-school testing OoC can create security risks, as was proven 2 years ago. Some OoC schools are anti-11+ and would refuse to administer the tests anyway. The same schools might also refuse permission for pupils to be absent to take the tests in term-time, so the parents would have to withdraw the children on unauthorised absences.

The only alternative would be weekend testing for all 7,000 pupils, but the cost of that in staff overtime would be absolutely massive.

Even then there would still be late testers due to illness, late registration, etc.

[loopymum64]

So what do you suggest will happen in 2013 when all results need to be issued before the deadline for school application. That puts half term out of the equation for out-of-county applicants so it would have to be weekends or in the summer holidays as I see it.

[Marylou]

So what do you suggest will happen in 2013 when all results need to be issued before the deadline for school application. That puts half term out of the equation for out-of-county applicants so it would have to be weekends or in the summer holidays as I see it.

...and summer holidays would be out of the question as so many families will have booked theirs by the time an announcement is made!

[Sally-Anne]

That puts half term out of the equation for out-of-county applicants so it would have to be weekends or in the summer holidays as I see it.

I would expect it to be weekends for OoC, with Bucks & Partner School children still taking the test in their own schools on a weekday.

[southbucks3]

What do other grammar school areas do and how do their in county/out of county children in grammar schools compare? Does anyone know of similar situations elsewhere?
I have thought long and hard about this since our sons grammar school head confirmed changes were going ahead and they would be for the better. One thing that i cannot understand is why with such a wide spread of educational standards available to the 11 plus takers, both through coaching and private schools the childrens scores are compared with peers month on month and not a set level that the school heads and presumably highly qualified consultants have agreed is the minimum level of educational requirement for the local grammar schools. There is no reason an age assessed score could not be administered for each month, this would hopefully fix the required pass mark, and mean the schools were filled with local children before the OOC super intelligent. I am a fifth generation Bucks born, and so is my husband and can confirm Bucks grammars are not supposed to be super achieving academies, just upper schools for the more academically biased children, allowing the secondary moderns to focus on a mix of academics and technical prowess. When I look at out family history of who went where school wise, it historically worked very well. I find it rather unfair that our fantastic local secondary modern is currently getting slated for not doing 3 languages etc, when it's d+t dept is an outright success. Having children in both camps I know my youngest son would look at me blankly if i asked him what a conjunctive was, but he could put the family tent up by the age of 7, and i know he will suit the secondary school best. Lets hope the division is re-instated quickly and the local schools are allowed to do their job of educating the children at a level suited to them, without having to fast track a growing number of level 5a kids at secondary schools, and help out struggling level 4 super coached kids at grammars.

[MollyB]

I completely agree that the Bucks Grammar Schools have changed over the years, it could be possibly that more people are choosing not to go down the Independent route and making use of Grammar schools. I have had several children over several years at a very popular Bucks Grammar and have noticed big changes. When my older boy went at 11 it was slightly more selective as they not only had to achieve 121 but higher for that particular school. Then it changed so that the school took children who scored 121 and were in the catchment area and I can truthfully say in our particular school my youngest has children in his class who are very local compared to my older boys when it creamed off the highest scores, some of their friends were in Hemel Hempstead, and Harrow.So in many ways it caters more for local children now than in the past.
I have also been aware that the amount of tuition that goes on now is scary, again such a big difference. I do think that a change to the 11 plus exam is well overdue and agree that bright children who have not had the opportunity to be tutored are being disadvantaged and this goes against the historic reason why Grammar Schools were introduced and it is unfair.
On another note reading through the many post regarding Prep Schools I can honestly say that our boys were not given any 11 plus prep at their independent School as this was not allowed the only tests they did before the 11 plus were the annual CAT tests which were quite different. I have to say our boys were very fortunate to have had a brilliant education before attending the local Grammar School and I do not feel at all guilty by being in the fortunate position of allowing them this chance.