Do the grammar schools find out 11+ score?

[MollyB]

The Grammar School where my children attend do have the VRT score on the childs profile but some teachers have said that they do not look at the score until after they have taught the children for a time and they are regularly very surprised! The school also state that the VRT score does not correlate to GCSE results.
It is a good thing that this test is being changed, tutoring has become ridiculous some start in year 4! I have experience of our 4 children going through the 11 plus over a span of 9 years. (youngest year7) My sixth form son and many of his peers have to do catch up Maths with quite a number of year 7 children.
I feel for the children in year 5 being the first to take the new test but on the positive side they are all in the same boat no-one knows what to expect so maybe for at least this year we will have a fairer test.I feel this will take pressure off some parents who are unable to pay for tutoring and maybe do not have the skills to tutor themselves, although from reading this forum it won't be long before the tutors have an agenda for tutoring for the new test it is big business in Bucks.

[lisa.1988]

Thanks for your replies. I suspect the science teacher was alluding to the fact that we got through on appeal but as she is doing well in all other subjects I am not worried and inclined to'Blame the teacher'! I think that by the end of year 7 the score will be irrelevant as she will have proved herself! It's just a shame that he spoke about the fact that 'it just wasn't there' and 'speak to her other teachers' in front of her! A lesson in how to demotivate a child!

[ian35mm]

The other sie of the coin is that Upper schools know the scoreas as well, but those children who come to an Upper schools, but haven't got SAT scores pose a problem for setting.

[fadinghopes]

Can I ask what the procedure for appealing is when failing the 11+, or for doing the 12+ (which needs SATS level 5A attainment) if the school doesn't do SATS?

Is some other evidence required and does this negatively impact on the child?

Many thanks

[Sally-Anne]

Can I ask what the procedure for appealing is when failing the 11+

That process is described in the first post here: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 12&t=29356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or for doing the 12+ (which needs SATS level 5A attainment) if the school doesn't do SATS?

There is no requirement for Level 5A, only Level 5s. If a child has not attained Level 5s you can appeal for them to take the test. Further 12+ information is here: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/school ... -procedure" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rob Clark]

The other sie of the coin is that Upper schools know the scoreas as well, but those children who come to an Upper schools, but haven't got SAT scores pose a problem for setting.

DD at a Bucks upper school, we were told setting initially done on a combination of factors, including 11+ scores, SATs results (if available), CATs scores (ditto) and primary school reports so they used a range of factors. Seems to have worked out OK...

[anotherdad]

The other sie of the coin is that Upper schools know the scoreas as well, but those children who come to an Upper schools, but haven't got SAT scores pose a problem for setting.

DD at a Bucks upper school, we were told setting initially done on a combination of factors, including 11+ scores, SATs results (if available), CATs scores (ditto) and primary school reports so they used a range of factors. Seems to have worked out OK...

My experience was the same. My daughter's upper school did exactly the same and she was placed in the correct sets for her ability. Moving to a grammar school in year 8, her levels were assessed on the familiarisation day in July and coupled with her performance in year 7, used to determine appropriate sets for streamed subjects.

[pippi]

I am sure they did (and I know of some myself), but the question is whether that was as a result of over-tutoring or whether it was simply because the test was not sufficiently accurate as a measure of GS ability.

Or maybe the number of children of true "grammar school ability" (whatever that means) is slightly less than the number of grammar school places? How/when was the number of grammar school places chosen?

There was an article in the Times last week about the new Bucks 11+, under the modest heading of "Grammar heads to develop 'tutor-proof' 11-plus examination" where they have some quotes from grammar heads..

The perception held by parents, that everyone else was having extra coaching for their child, was driving the increase in tutoring.

An awful lot of these children would have quite comfortably passed the test without tutoring.

My advice to people sitting the new tests would be, 'do a lot of reading and practice your maths'.

The test will change from year to year and the types of questions will challenge verbal ability not just verbal reasoning.

A while back a different GS head wrote to me to say that "Any replacement for VR testing is likely to be more susceptible to ‘coaching’." and "‘A battery of tests’ [ie VR, NVR and maths!] would seem to lose sight of the child and has the potential to increase stress and serve only to alienate the very cohorts you seem concerned about – using your line of argument, those from disadvantaged backgrounds or minority ethnic backgrounds may be ‘put off’ by a battery of tests, finding it overwhelming and confusing."