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 Post subject: Bucks VR: BODMAS/BIDMAS IN or OUT?Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:31 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:31 pm
Posts: 1167

I have come across a question which states:

"A = 5, B = 7, C = 8, D = 14 and E = 48

What is the answer to this sum written as a letter?

E + C – B / B = (?)"

What would the answer be? The question book states "B" but if you apply BODMAS then its clearly not B. Does Buckinghamshire Verbal Reasoning Papers assume no BODMAS (order of calculation Brackets, Of, Divide, Multiply, Add, Subtract), thus just calculate left to right?

Thanks

N.B. 11 Plus Maths for NFER does apply BODMAS.

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:36 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11958
It should have brackets around the (E + C - B) to have that answer.

I think Bucks VR uses BODMAS [or BIDMAS as it's now called - I for indices or powers] so the question is wrongly composed.

Nice to see you popping in and out forumadmin!!

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:51 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:31 pm
Posts: 1167
Hi G55,

This is exactly what I stated, however I was advised that Bucks VR, for children of this age, promotes Left to Right rather than BiDMAS, yet bizarrely the 11 Plus Maths Papers in other counties assumes BiDMAS knowledge.

A Bucks tutor I spoke to with regard to this was like you and I insistent that brackets are necessary. However the expert author is sure of her position with respect to Bucks VR papers.

Hence my request for other experts to join the debate.

I have been known to pop-in and pop-out here there and everywhere!?

Regards,

HeWhoMustNotBeNamedButHas

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:14 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi

In our experience all 11+ Verbal Reasoning Questions that follow the NFER format can be worked out from left to right and BODMAS is not an issue.

E + C - B / B

Would not therefore be a NFER format question, unless someone can find such a question in the NFER practice papers, familiarization packs or actual tests.

The author of this question, I believe, has not standardised it to NFER format, just hope it isn´t one of our questions!!!!!

Regards

Mike

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:01 pm
Quote:
In our experience all 11+ Verbal Reasoning Questions that follow the NFER format can be worked out from left to right and BODMAS is not an issue.

Is this deliberate bearing in mind BODMAS is only taught at secondary school and is not on the primary curriculum.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:14 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
Posts: 11958
I'm sure it [BIDMAS] was covered in Y6 st my child's Primary [LA maintained}.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:26 pm
Quote:
I'm sure it [BIDMAS] was covered in Y6 st my child's Primary [LA maintained}.

Interesting to hear you say that as I know my oldest didn't come across it until he hit secondary school. It doesn't however, mean that he should not have covered it in primary!!

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:47 pm
My daughter definitely covered it in Year 6. We remember particularly because her teacher told her that the 'O' stood for 'over'..... and we spent some time looking it up on the internet to check what each letter stood for.

Y

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:26 pm

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi

Brackets
Order (Indices)
Division
Multiplication
Subtraction

is taught at the higher level of KS2 in the Mathematics curriculum.

However, the original posting was referring to BODMAS within the context of Verbal Reasoning papers for Bucks 11+ tests and BODMAS is not required for any of the mathematics verbal reasoning questions because the questions are written in such a way that BODMAS is irrelevant. All questions can be worked out "mathematically correct" from left to right.

Irrespective of the level of primary mathematics BODMAS should always be applied and taught correctly. There is no excuse for saying that

2 + 3 x 2 + 3 = 13 (working left to right)

when it should equal "11" when BODMAS rules are applied.

Regards

Mike

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:45 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:31 pm
Posts: 1167
Hi Mike,

"A = 5, B = 7, C = 8, D = 14 and E = 48

What is the answer to this sum written as a letter?

E + C – B / B = (?)"

The question book states "B" but if you apply BODMAS then its clearly not B."

Therefore is the question technically wrong for Buckinghamshire, since applying BoDMAS results in a different answer?

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