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 Post subject: Gender and 11+ results
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:05 pm 
Firstly, have to say I think this is a very useful and informative forum -secondly, it's a shame it's needed!

I'm hoping someone out there can help me with a small question that is bugging me : every year at the briefing for parents/pupils due to take the 11+ tests, our headteacher informs them that girls need to do better in the tests than boys (by a couple of marks), in order to pass. Now, surely this cannot be true - but I can't find anything that clearly proves it wrong. Any comments would be helpful.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:11 pm 
This has always been said about the 11+, even back in the days of old when everyone sat the test. The reasons are:

(a) Girls tend to score higher on 11+ type questions than boys (before you all jump in here - this is on average).

(b) There used to be fewer girls grammar places, but I don't know whether they can get away with this anymore.

I don't know whether this all still holds true, but it definitely used to be the case. I used to tell my brother that I was cleverer than him because, although we both passed the 11+, I must have scored higher than him!! A bit silly, but great for winding up big brothers.


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 Post subject: Winter Born Children
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:55 pm 
This year. we noticed most of the appeals at our school were Winter born children who were expected to pass the 11+, their scores were very close, but did not quite achieve 121.

I wonder if this was showing some sort of pattern in other years, as Winter born children do not get any extra points and also if a girl, does not get any for her gender. Anyone else noticed that alot of appeals are winter born?
I do agree that spring/summer children should get extra points, but maybe if there are alot of winter born children that were expected to pass this could be looked at before test results are known. Would save a lot of time and stress for people having to go through appeal and save money for Bucks County Council.

What do you think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm
Posts: 2660
Dear All

Firstly I must be honest ......I am not totally sure.

However I have been told on so many occasions [ by heads and teachers] that the gender 'thing' is a myth.

I have looked at NFERs website and can find nothing about gender in their current information. [may have been the case many years ago but not now]

If any one can show me some proof .....will gladly change my mind.

With regard to winter born babies .....agree they do seem to be disadvantaged......yes summer born do need something extra....so whats the solution??

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Year 6 parent makes an extremely interesting point. I know of 7 children appealing across various schools, and every single one was born between late October and early Feb. Don't know what the solution is though!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:47 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Berks,Bucks
As far as I understand, the standardised score is adjusted according to how well the month cohort has done. For example, December children would have points 'removed' because on average, they have done better than the average for the entire cohort. I don't see how this could disadvantage a particlar age group, unless the standardised score adjustment for age is too big, and disproportionate with the difference in the results.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:25 pm 
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Dear Catherine

Agree ,in theory, that no group should be disadvantaged...

But in reality there does seem to be an underlying trend....I have seen so many very bright, winter born children score very low passes or fail.....and so many average, summer born just pass./ and average to bright summer born score highly.

NFER will tell us that it is totally fair.....I am only reporting trends I have noticed....interesting subject.

Would love to see some official figures....

Patricia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:31 pm 
Gosh this is very interesting.

My daughter got 120 (got through appeal!!) and is an October birthday. All the friends (7 of them) that we know of between Sept and Dec have just scraped through - 121 - 126.
Four of her friends who were born from June - Aug got 141 and two were fairly bright (I know far brighter children from Oct and Nov births mentioned above), two ok ish. I would not say they were amazingly bright though.
One girl who was not expected to pass at all, and we think may well struggle, got 121 - Aug birthday!! Even her parents are now getting worried that she may well not cope.

I only know of two boys who passed - Sept birth - got 122, and Oct birth got 124. My daughter is at an all girls school that's why!!

I do have a question - why do the 11+ results get standardised??? These must be the only exams that are.
One headmaster of a school we looked at for our daughter said that most children have caught up by the age of 7 - interestingly his school always get a very good pass rate!!!!

Also - SATS are not standardised nor are GCSEs or A Levels - so why 11+

Does anyone know why??

Mel


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:35 pm 
I also seem to recall in the booklet we were given from Bucks LEA, that it said that girls no longer get extra points. Girls used to get extra points as they could be starting menstruation at the time of the 11+ exams, but those points have been taken away.

Is this correct - or was I dreaming it!!!!????

Mel


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Glanced through the booklet Mel, and can't find anything that refers to this. It would be blatant sex discrimination at the least. Anyway, what about all the testosterone that seems to fly round my house (and Patricia's, to judge from her post on another thread on Saturday)!! That seems to be just as much a limiting factor on everyday functionality for my son!


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