The OoC argument - Results day 17th October

[southbucks3]

Sitting 5 11+ exams (not necessarily for the blue peter badge) is not just being done by chilledsonnervousdad.

Of these five, three (QE, Sutton and Bexley) either do not mandate any catchment or have places for OOC children. The other two are: Enfield (where I live), and Bucks (where I might move, no matter how mean the clique).

As you moved very recently to Enfield in order to be in catchment for latymer obviously in your heart that is the school you desire for your son and I am sure the clique of bucks parents wish you every ounce of luck in securing that place.
Our objections are based more on the fact that your son sat for a test where you seem not to have read recent admission policies and, I may be wrong of course, but you do not seem to have not visited the schools either.
I for one, and I am sure others agree, welcome any parent who is willing to thoroughly commit to our leafy area both in body and heart. We do object to our children competing for their future education against others who will simply create ghost places, as their priorities lay with top of the league table superselective schools and the bucks test was simply used as a mock for latymer, reading or Kendrick with the disappointing after thought that they may have to resort to actually taking a place if their children are not quite super enough in the super selective tests.
I and many other parents in the area would love to see some concrete support for local children as we have seen the amount of local kids passing the test each year fall by 10% in five years. The shift in admissions criteria, was just a tiny nod in support of a huge local force of parents, grandparents and anyone who cares about our children, who have no choice but to be involved in a two tier grammar system. Clearly more must be done to prevent hundreds of grammar school seats sitting apparently empty but actually accommodated by ghosts of super children, whilst some upper schools struggle to accommodate even their catchment cohort.
We could of course move to areas with comprehensive schools, but unlike the very keen parents who somewhat laudably are able to move within months to secure a grammar school place for their children, most have strong links with the area. Old fashioned as it may seem we have jobs, family, friends, own houses, help run local community facilities, even an allotment, all things which cannot just abandoned for one priority....it takes years to get your allotment just so.
Chilledsonnervousdad does seem to have become the epe stooge for all parents taking advantage of the weakness in the bucks selection process, but this is because he seems to have thick skin? which I assume is hiding his nerves about his real desires for his son, which is a place at latymer. Again I wish his boy every success, but maybe a little thought for others and diplonacy when posting on forum would not go amiss.

[sonasona]

I've got to say the tone of some of the in-county posts are not to my liking. I genuinely feel for those that have missed out but do you really need to be that hard on the OOC parents?

At least you have lots of grammar schools....in Reading we have one girls and one boys Grammar with massive catchments, spare a thought for our local children who narrowly miss out on places. We all have our issues.

I think I've already said this before but Bucks really should adopt the policy of Warks where they offered the OOC Children a date after their local CEM test knowing so well they probably wouldn't turn up!

Just editing now to say I hadn't even read sb3's latest post and was commenting on some earlier posts.

[southbucks3]

think I've already said this before but Bucks really should adopt the policy of Warks where they offered the OOC Children a date after their local CEM test knowing so well they probably wouldn't turn up!

That would quite simply be too easy, I e mailed them twice about mocks and order of test dates, long before things were confirmed in public, but predictably had no reply, I am far too lowly.
Maybe next year they will sort it out?

Play nicely everyone, or we will lose the thread!

[Peridot]

I don't post very often these days but this out of area thing is something that really gets my goat! It's commendable to aspire to a good school for your child of course, but Bucks is different in that there are no comps, unlike other areas - certainly where I live there are several comps with many children getting just as good results as those at the (only two) grammars. I do think there is a problem with the "grammar or bust" attitude, and it seems often to lead to a lot of stress and heartache. You can get just as good an education at a comprehensive.

[aks2621]

We live in Norfollk and there is hardly any grammar school. We were not in favour of tutoring our daughter as well. When we applied for Bucks, we heard that, few places, if remain vacant, can be given to out-of-catchment kids if they score extremely high and we always had an intention to move to any part of Country but not before having results of all the exams. We tried for Chelmsford Grammar school (24 seats OOC), Sutton (Non such and Watllington ,very few seats for OCC) and CSSE.
The whole intention was also to find out where exactly our daughter stands and i am proud to see that she came in top 30% of kids where-ever she took the exam (Sutton school result still awaited). I am not seeing anything wrong in taking Bucks exam and in fact, Bucks was so kind that they sent the papers to her primary school to take.
As far as i see, i pay the same tax as people living in Bucks pay and i have the same rights as others have.
I am no way unfair to any other person.
Always think about other's point of view before expressing yourself.

ta

[SingleDad]

I don't think that people in Bucks are resentful of OOC children taking the Bucks 11+ test, providing that the test is being taken to genuinely pursue a place in a Bucks School. My feeling is that all children in that situation are welcome.

I think anger arises where either the test is being taken as a mock or (for whatever reason) there isn't any intention to take a place in Bucks. This is simply because this type of activity pushes up the pass mark and leaves IC children, who would have otherwise passed, looking at Review and Appeal which itself is a stressful process.

[scary mum]

we heard that, few places, if remain vacant, can be given to out-of-catchment kids if they score extremely high

You were misinformed or didn't read the documentation. Score is irrelevant. It is a score of 121 and then distance.

[aks2621]

we heard that, few places, if remain vacant, can be given to out-of-catchment kids if they score extremely high

You were misinformed or didn't read the documentation. Score is irrelevant. It is a score of 121 and then distance.

Yes, i agree now that i was misinformed. That's why, i asked this question at the very first post of mineearlier whether we have any chance at all in OOC category....

And see it that way that i did not move in Oct just to grab a seat from some other kid living in that Bucks area...
I was just under the impression that if she scores extremely high, she will be offered a place regardless of where we live..

[kittymum]

I've got to say the tone of some of the in-county posts are not to my liking. I genuinely feel for those that have missed out but do you really need to be that hard on the OOC parents?

At least you have lots of grammar schools....in Reading we have one girls and one boys Grammar with massive catchments, spare a thought for our local children who narrowly miss out on places. We all have our issues.

I think I've already said this before but Bucks really should adopt the policy of Warks where they offered the OOC Children a date after their local CEM test knowing so well they probably wouldn't turn up!

Just editing now to say I hadn't even read sb3's latest post and was commenting on some earlier posts.

I think maybe the crux of the issue in Bucks is that yes we do have grammar schools but what we don't have is comprehensive schools - we are a fully selective county - our children who are not deemed selective go to upper schools (what were secondary moderns). This causes a whole raft of problems - it puts immense pressure on the upper schools as they are now taking a whole load of children who really should be at the grammar - this means that they are having to invest extra resources to meet the needs of those children. As they only have limited funds this surely will be disadvantaging some of their other students. Additionally as grammar places are becoming increasingly filled with OOC children more and more Bucks children are being pushed into the upper schools where to be frank there just aren't enough places. My catchment upper (Great Marlow) was unable to accommodate all catchment children this year whereas my catchment grammar (SWBGS) has children from out of catchment (I'm differentiating these from the Berks children there who are in catchment). These are schools in the same town, pulling from essentially the same catchment area so I think show the problem quite clearly! JHGS has empty spaces - GMS has two classes full of children on 3 level 5's (again they are schools with overlapping catchment areas). It's impossible to look at these facts and not think that the OOC multiple exam takers, who view Bucks as either a warm up or a fall back option "if all else fails" are a major contributor to the problem.

I have no issue with people moving into Bucks and becoming part of the community etc etc and I'm sure the other parents feel the same way. I do find it shocking that people are entering their children for exams where they have no idea of the admissions policy / qualification etc as both are very clearly explained by both County and the schools!!!

Chilled Dad your son clearly is very bright - I hope he gets Latymer as that is clearly your first choice. The Bucks schools admission policies, as Guest55 has said have been in place for ages, also as you are well aware they are all academies and so set their own policies so it would really need to be schools you were speaking to re admissions rather then Bucks - perhaps that is where your problem lay?

This thread has made me really sad - I have one child in a Bucks grammar - my closest catchment school, and in a years time will have just opened the envelope to see whether my dd will be joining her big bruv there. All I, and my children want to do is to go to school in the community they've lived in their whole lives, in the town I've lived in for over 25 years - surely that's not too much to ask for?

I have met some lovely people on this forum - kind, generous and inspirational but I have also encountered the kind of cut throat, self centered attitude that really shows the worst in humanity.

Anyway sorry bit of a rant there! As you were everybody Sona I've just realised I've quoted your post at the start of this - crossing my fingers for your dd and Kendrick

[Tolstoy]

I've got to say the tone of some of the in-county posts are not to my liking. I genuinely feel for those that have missed out but do you really need to be that hard on the OOC parents?

At least you have lots of grammar schools....in Reading we have one girls and one boys Grammar with massive catchments, spare a thought for our local children who narrowly miss out on places. We all have our issues.

I think I've already said this before but Bucks really should adopt the policy of Warks where they offered the OOC Children a date after their local CEM test knowing so well they probably wouldn't turn up!

Just editing now to say I hadn't even read sb3's latest post and was commenting on some earlier posts.

I think the tone of the posts are in direct response to the OP. This county area frowns on needless bragging about scores it is also blatantly obvious even to a newbie to the area that there is a knock effect for DC who live in the area if thousands of DC sit the Bucks 11+ exam and don't take up their place, be that intentionally ( very unethical) or unintentionally ( natural movement, not a problem as in the overall scheme of things leaves space for appeal DC and those who move into the area at a later date) . Having spent many years frequenting the Gloucestershire part of the forum where knowing scores helps ascertain likelihood of a place and witnessed so many posts where posters intention is purely to brag with no thought for those who maybe suffering great distress about DC's result I strongly agree with the Bucks stance.

In addition selection by appeals whilst it most definitely selects the right DC academically penalises those DC whose DP may not think of appealing. Often the very DC who would benefit most from a place at a Grammar school because their DP is or Ps are unwilling or unable to give extra support at home.

P.s post clash apologies if repeating above.