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 Post subject: tutors test pk 4
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:57 pm 
I just have a couple of queries for Mike on the papers below:

Paper 9: number 56. Gather is to (pile harvest pack) as pick is to (wheat choose bread) ans: harvest choose. Son put pile choose and I cannot see why that would be wrong ...?

Paper 10: number 80. In this question it asks how many words O R found, my son worked it out to be 40 however he than went on to find out how many words in twenty minutes and answered as 20, ie 1 word a minute. However the correct answer is 40 thus was looking for answer in 40 minutes. Why are both options available?

I am just unsure of above answers and would appreciate it if you were able to clarify. Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:32 pm
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Location: East Kent
number 9 I would choose 'choose' on the basis that it is a synonym for pick, like harvest is for gather..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:42 am 
As pile is synonym for gather


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:45 pm 
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Posts: 625
Hi srk1

I cannot access the questions on this connection will give you a reply tomorrow.

Regards

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm 
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Hi srk1

Do you have a reference source for gather and pile being synonyms?

We defer to Thesaurus.com for queries relating to synonyms and antonyms and I can not see a reference directly relating gather and pile as synonyms.

However, when accumulate and gather are linked as synonyms then accumulate and pile are also synonyms. This may lead some people to think that if pile is a synonym of accumulate and accumulate is a synonym of gather then pile is a synonym of gather.

We think that gather and harvest have a much closer link as direct synonyms and therefore completes the sentence in the best way because pick and choose are direct synonyms.

Regards

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
I agree precisely with Mike. The same connection between pile - gather accumulate is in Roget's Thesaurus (to which this dinosaur still defers!). That does not make pile a synonym of gather!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:58 am 
Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus - Cite This Source - Share This
Main Entry: gather
Part of Speech: verb 3
Definition: harvest
Synonyms: crop, cull, draw, extract, garner, glean, heap, ingather, mass, pick, pick out, pick up, pile, pluck, reap, select, stack, take in
Notes: garner means to amass or acquire or reap; gather means to assemble or get together
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Pile is listed as synonym here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 625
Hi srk1

When I looked at Thesaurus.com I inserted pick and looked for synonyms, what I did not see is that from the same source pick verb 2 has the definition gather. So therefore we need to accept pick as being a synonym for gather. We will keep the answer to the question the same by changing pick for peck and insert a note on the erratum for pack 4. We will also make an immediate change to the e-paper.

The other query is explained as follows: we do not apply averages to the question, your assumption that OR completes one question per minute is incorrect. OR takes twice as long as OF, OF takes twenty minutes, therefore OR takes forty minutes, but she finds fifteen more words. OF found twenty-five words, therefore OR found forty words. The question contains definite information, averages are used for estimating. We could estimate that OR completed twenty questions in twenty minutes, but we cannot state for a fact that she did.

Regards

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:02 pm 
Hi Mike

Thank you for getting back to me.

In q56 pp9, Gather is to (pile harvest pack) as Pick is to (wheat choose bread): it was gather is to Pile and pick is to Choose my son answered, where Pile is listed as synonym as shown in the thesaurus. However ans stated is Harvest and Choose. It would be the word Pile not Pick that would need changing.

Main Entry: gather
Part of Speech: verb 3
Definition: harvest
Synonyms: crop, cull, draw, extract, garner, glean, heap, ingather, mass, pick, pick out, pick up, pile, pluck, reap, select, stack, take in
Notes: garner means to amass or acquire or reap; gather means to assemble or get together
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.


In q80 pp10: My son chose 20 as the answer as he thought it would compare directly with OF number of words in twenty minutes. Following your explanation, I have asked him to ensure that if such a question should present itself he is to work with info given and not assume!

Thank you for your help!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:49 am
Posts: 450
Few words are exact synonyms of other words. That is, you can rarely use word X in all the sentences that you could use word Y without changing the meaning of at least some of the sentences.

Thesauruses and dictionaries reflect usage; they cannot be exhaustive since the English language has a vast vocabulary which grows by the day, and in most instances they will offer only a subset of possible words. They provide, as the word 'thesaurus' suggests, a treasury of words to plunder. But once you've found your words, I think the best way of checking whether they are synonyms, is to put the words into a sentence and see if the meaning remains largely the same. Thus, 'I gathered my belongings together' and 'I piled my belongings together', both work and have similar, but not identical, meanings.

Y


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