Yr 5 in a state primary in AV - what chance?!?

[Guest55]

If they know children are entering the Transfer Tests they should be abiding by the rules other schools have to ...

[Tolstoy]

rhiane, I find it interesting that you say you chose not to tutor her due to her natural ability. I am sure she is academically able as she got the required score however with an hours tutoring a week increasing to two hours over a two year period I would say she was extensively tutored.

How can DC who attend normal primaries and whose parents don't tutor or employ someone possibly compete with that? It will only ever become a level playing field if state primaries start doing some preparation for the exam.

[Tolstoy]

OP - I have a Y5 son in a primary with an excellent pass rate and I fully intend to prep him for the exam. The system is unfair and no amount of tinkering with the exam will change that. Whilst teaching for the exam is left to parents and not provided by the schools then it will remain so and no amount of fighting the system will change that by next September when your DC takes their test. No DC should have to sit a test having only experienced one practice test and that two days previously. It is also pitched at a lower level so in many ways gives DC a false sense of security which can cause unnecessary upset during the actual test.

[rhiane]

I agree with you both about most primaries not being able to compete with this, (but I wouldn't say that 1-2 hours a week during term time only is extensive tutoring) My local state primary had a good pass rate (OOC) but this is due to parents taking it upon themselves to provide what the school doesn't.

Guest55: DDs school don't do much at all with regards to 11+ preparation, they are preparing them more for common entrance, a lot of what they did was standard format whereas the test is multiple choice.

Surely if a state school does nothing to prepare a child for the 11+, parents should take over this preparation themselves! 1-2 hours a week in year 5 doing age related thinking skills, (which can actually be quite fun) is not a big hardship!

Why would a parent not do any tutoring at all (themselves or through an external totor) if they intend on putting their DC through the 11+?

[Tolstoy]

Rhiane I will give you an example.

Father can't read in low paid job. Mother out cleaning in the evening to supplement income. Has two younger DC to look after as well. Didn't get a good education herself.

The DC in this example is now at a highly selective school(not Bucks, no catchment, so selects on score) but only because,
A, the headmaster against the rules told mother to put her DD in for the test.
B, I gave her books and papers to practice with.
C, She had the ambition and maturity, at the age of 10, to do the practice herself.

State grammars are for all DC of high academic ability not just those with access to some form of tutoring.

I don't believe a bright DC needs more than a couple of months tutoring. With the CEM as long as their primary is teaching them to a high standard then all the school really needs to do is occassionally give them some NVR work as this is only ever done for CATs. In addition perhaps give them mock tests using the same fornat at least once a term ( done way back in my day and used for assessment purposes). Finally rather than giving DC tedious spelling lists, that appear to have little effective, give them vocab tests, a far more useful skill in this world of dumbed down t v and continual gaming.

[MrsGrylls]

Thanks for the recent posts on this thread.

Rhiane Your DDs experience chimes with what I'm hearing from the (admittedly small sample of) children attending Bucks independents. They are being prepped/tutored for it, it's just that it's dressed up as Thinking Skills or similar and I think in some cases it's also being done outside of curriculum time so in lunchtimes/after school or Saturdays. The reason I know these children is that they're using the same external tutor that I'm using for my DD.

Tolstoy Thanks so much for your input too. I am prepping my DC with the help of a 1 hour a week private tutor plus work we're doing at home. But I do think Bucks state primaries need to wake up and think about how they can level the playing field, especially for the DC like the example you gave.

[ConfusedAylesburyMum]

My son is at a state primary in AV that is in Special measures. Roughly 15% have just passed, my son being one of them. Academically he is 100% grammar school ability although I would have said that more than 15% at the school are based on the number that will come out with level 5s and due to a significant push in the last year, level 6's.

Yes, we did do extra tuition which now with the new 11+ also supports their school work as opposed to the old test. So I felt it was definitively money well spent.

[Eccentric]

Thanks for the replies.

Guest 55 - I didn't know that about the independents being bound by the same rules. As I understand it from the children that I know (all 3 of them ) that attend two private schools locally they are being prepped except they call it "Problem-solving" and "Critical thinking" or something like that.

As you say it will be interesting when the full 2014 stats are out. It's also true that I don't know how many at my DC's school entered so the % quoted is based on % of whole yr6 cohort.

I know I am very out of date with this post, but I have to agree. I have a number of friends whose children go to prep schools and 2 in particular spend a lot of tome propping the children, in fact the whole of the term prior to the 11+ they do masses of stuff to help them pass. Not called 11+ prep though.

[hermanmunster]

I suppose the indies (like the ones my kids went to) are putting kids in for a range of exams at GS and senior indies - some similar to 11plus some not. They understandably prep for the indie exams - if some of that
helps with 11 plus there is not a lot you can do about that.
My DS was at a prep a very long distance from his current GS - the school did not have any state GS nearby and hence any exams were for indies only - the kids did all the things that they needed for these exams. He did not do anything specific for the GS exams but passed them fine.

[Lillie]

Sadly, I think it is very naive if we, Bucks CC or the grammar school heads actually believe that partner schools do not do additional practice for the tests. That is partly what a lot of the parents are paying for and some go on for private tutoring as well.

It is ridiculously unfair to tie the hands of the state primaries to stop them from giving any additional help to children. If the private schools believe that "thinking strategies" or whatever other term they use is useful to their children, why can't such a "subject" be offered at a state school?