Select Committee Meeting 19th November
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Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Bucks has enough grammar places for about 30% don't they? And they won't want to run empty - so those places will be filled up. So it's more a question of which 30% of children get the places, not if would drop to 5% .... unless the population of Bucks is going up at the rate of knots and the grammars are choosing not to expand.
The test will partly dictate which 30% get in, as will parental preference, quality of primary school, home circumstances etc.
I agree with you all that the new test is probably not a step in the "tutor-proof" direction but that was pretty obvious right from the start.
The test will partly dictate which 30% get in, as will parental preference, quality of primary school, home circumstances etc.
I agree with you all that the new test is probably not a step in the "tutor-proof" direction but that was pretty obvious right from the start.
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Some very considered, thoughtful posts on here. Why can't some of the good forum members be invited on to the council education committee? I'm sure we'd get a more equitable system!
I agree that culture at the primary schools must be a very important factor, otherwise such wide discrepancies wouldn't occur. I know there are variations in cohorts year on year, but as previously said, the general pattern both pre CEM and post CEM, seems to indicate that a number of LA schools consistently outperform others, whilst certain other LA primary schools consistently under perform in 11 plus achievement. And generally the usual suspects can be found in both the high achieving schools and lower achieving schools. Has anyone found certain schools which have bucked the trend and vastly improved their performance as a result of CEM (or the reverse)?
Social demographics obviously plays a part in it as well and I know there are some schools which are shunned and others which are sought after in the local area.
The system really needs to get to grips with this issue. It is simply not acceptable to have certain primary schools where the 11 plus qualification rate of the children is almost pre-determined as soon as they enter the portals of certain schools.
I agree that culture at the primary schools must be a very important factor, otherwise such wide discrepancies wouldn't occur. I know there are variations in cohorts year on year, but as previously said, the general pattern both pre CEM and post CEM, seems to indicate that a number of LA schools consistently outperform others, whilst certain other LA primary schools consistently under perform in 11 plus achievement. And generally the usual suspects can be found in both the high achieving schools and lower achieving schools. Has anyone found certain schools which have bucked the trend and vastly improved their performance as a result of CEM (or the reverse)?
Social demographics obviously plays a part in it as well and I know there are some schools which are shunned and others which are sought after in the local area.
The system really needs to get to grips with this issue. It is simply not acceptable to have certain primary schools where the 11 plus qualification rate of the children is almost pre-determined as soon as they enter the portals of certain schools.
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
This is precisely my experience. In some primaries, you are labelled as a pushy parent if you even ask for nc levels, let alone mention the 11+. In fact, I did ask about the 11+ in a Y4 parent's evening and was directed to the BCC slideshow presentation. There was no other mention of the test until the presentation at the end of Y5. I requested a meeting with the head before the summer holidays to find out the recommendation for DS (fully expecting that there wouldn't be one). It was only at that point that the head said DS would thrive in grammar but I'd better work with him over the summer to get him through the test because we were up against children that had been tutored for years....southbucks3 wrote:I cannot help but think the primaries in question do not mention or push forward the notion of gs because its much easier, friendlier, happier to ignore its existence.
The ethos of the primary is key in the pass rates. I can't imagine the attitude towards the test would have been the same in the school up the road with the 32% pass rate (compared to our 7% in 2013 and 4% in 2014).
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
In our Y5 talk the Head said GS were only for the very top (exceptionally able) students and there were not many places.
She did not seem to be aware that 30% are selected ... of course the school 11+ qualification mirrors her aspirations.
She did not seem to be aware that 30% are selected ... of course the school 11+ qualification mirrors her aspirations.
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Yes, I seem to remember the word 'exceptional' being liberally applied! Glad to know I'm not alone.
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Our head told me when my DD was in year 2 that level 5s at KS2 were gold dust and my child would never get one.
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Sally-Anne
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Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Thinking out loud, and in the light of Stroller's very insightful post ...
There are 130 mainstream primaries in Bucks, and 13 GS. 10 primary schools each ...
I know that some of them run excellent "outreach programmes" for local schools, but I still feel that more can be done on that level.
There are Primary Heads in Bucks who don't support the selective system, and there always will be, but they should not still be getting away with sacrificing children's futures at the altar of their personal beliefs.
I think the GS Heads need to come up with a more cohesive (and even "catchy", if I dare suggest it) outreach programme between them to address some of these issues.
... and some other comments I've received recently about under-achievement ...Stroller wrote:Well put, both of you. I agree and I also think there are easy steps that would make some of it more addressable. It would be interesting to run talks for parents at the end of year 4. Explain what is coming up. Explain what it takes. Explain how to help.
Arguably there should be similar practical talks far earlier for disadvantaged areas. And shame on any school that doesn't help parents to understand free and effective ways to help and occupy their kids. Join the library. Use book lists, etc. Listen to stories on CD and podcast. Bring tots to free story time sessions.
A nice quote applies: "You can't be what you can't see." Provide role models from the local community or similar and explain how it happened and why school matters (grammar or not). Impact on earnings, etc.
There are 130 mainstream primaries in Bucks, and 13 GS. 10 primary schools each ...
I know that some of them run excellent "outreach programmes" for local schools, but I still feel that more can be done on that level.
There are Primary Heads in Bucks who don't support the selective system, and there always will be, but they should not still be getting away with sacrificing children's futures at the altar of their personal beliefs.
I think the GS Heads need to come up with a more cohesive (and even "catchy", if I dare suggest it) outreach programme between them to address some of these issues.
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
Do they really care as long as they have bums on seats & the money that goes with them? They are running businesses after all.
scary mum
Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
There used to be more outreach but the ending of money for specialisms has cut it back substantially. There also seemed to be fears of being accused of 'poaching' as in many areas catchments overlap ...
The LA used to coordinate Master Classes but can't dictate to Academies that these should continue ...
The LA used to coordinate Master Classes but can't dictate to Academies that these should continue ...
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Dollydripmat
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Re: Select Committee Meeting 19th November
I do know and have heard of some primary heads not supporting 11+ system. I'm appalled that this is allowed how on earth can you be appointed as a HT in a county that has the 11+, it's just ridiculous !!
Maybe I've gone mad or it's just 11+ fever! but it's not rocket science we can make it at least a little bit fairer !! Come on Bucks CC move the tourist date for testing! Prep test as Sally Anne and G55 mentioned earlier ,Y4 informed 11+ meeting, primary heads emabracing the system, and private sector... Well jury's out on that one, as what I proposed is illegal!
and finally for GS heads to acknowledge the new entrants arriving in Y7 have ALL been tutored !!!! Not one single child will have gained a place with their "natural" academic ability. (Rant over!
) dolly x
Maybe I've gone mad or it's just 11+ fever! but it's not rocket science we can make it at least a little bit fairer !! Come on Bucks CC move the tourist date for testing! Prep test as Sally Anne and G55 mentioned earlier ,Y4 informed 11+ meeting, primary heads emabracing the system, and private sector... Well jury's out on that one, as what I proposed is illegal!
and finally for GS heads to acknowledge the new entrants arriving in Y7 have ALL been tutored !!!! Not one single child will have gained a place with their "natural" academic ability. (Rant over!
) dolly x