MYTHS & LEGENDS

[Tolstoy]

One of the saddest myths that I have heard is that borderline 11+ pass children struggle at Grammar School. All the research shows the opposite - that, it is this group of children who improve the most and get the most out of the environment.

Similarly ' if my child fails I won't appeal' that old myth that result is a reflection of ability.

[Eccentric]

One of the saddest myths that I have heard is that borderline 11+ pass children struggle at Grammar School. All the research shows the opposite - that, it is this group of children who improve the most and get the most out of the environment.

Similarly ' if my child fails I won't appeal' that old myth that result is a reflection of ability.

Yes I got caught out by that one and couldn't have been more wrong. It is one test on one day and the test itself doesn't really gauge ability but speed. If had been using this forum then I would have thought about appealing.

[heartmum]

One of the saddest myths that I have heard is that borderline 11+ pass children struggle at Grammar School. All the research shows the opposite - that, it is this group of children who improve the most and get the most out of the environment.

Similarly ' if my child fails I won't appeal' that old myth that result is a reflection of ability.

My DC1 didn't even qualify, went to appeal and was successful - yesterday they started back at their grammar school for 6th form after achieving excellent results from their GCSEs

[Daogroupie]

There is the opposite myth that only a percentage can go from each school/area.

The Deputy Head of one of our local primary schools told me that Student X had not got a place at DAO as the quota for our area had already been filled.

In reality her parents had assumed that a natural bright child would get a place, so had done no prep at all. The English and Maths papers were not marked as Student X only got half way through the VR paper. However the school continue to believe the quota myth. DG

[southbucks3]

:

One of the saddest myths that I have heard is that borderline 11+ pass children struggle at Grammar School. All the research shows the opposite - that, it is this group of children who improve the most and get the most out of the environment.

Surely even within the myth bust you are creating another myth , some borderline kids will do well, some will struggle, some who got a great 11+ result will do well some will struggle, it really depends how hard they work in their new school, their circumstances throughout school and how bright they are. Some of the borderline pass kids I know struggle badly and probably only scraped a pass with a huge amount of help from parents, tutors or independent primary. Some do ok but are borderline academically and will never excell, but that's ok, the bucks grammars should accommodate those kids happily too.

I do wonder why people seem determined to spread nonsense about schools and the test, why can't they ensure facts are validated before repeating sometimes completely ridiculous rumours, is it the moment of having a captivated audience staring at them in disbelief, fear or hope they thrive on?

[Sally-Anne]

There is the opposite myth that only a percentage can go from each school/area.

The Deputy Head of one of our local primary schools told me that Student X had not got a place at DAO as the quota for our area had already been filled.

In reality her parents had assumed that a natural bright child would get a place, so had done no prep at all. The English and Maths papers were not marked as Student X only got half way through the VR paper. However the school continue to believe the quota myth. DG

I don't think this one has ever cropped up in Bucks, although I can see why it might occur for some Herts schools.

[kenyancowgirl]

:

One of the saddest myths that I have heard is that borderline 11+ pass children struggle at Grammar School. All the research shows the opposite - that, it is this group of children who improve the most and get the most out of the environment.

Surely even within the myth bust you are creating another myth , some borderline kids will do well, some will struggle, some who got a great 11+ result will do well some will struggle, it really depends how hard they work in their new school, their circumstances throughout school and how bright they are. Some of the borderline pass kids I know struggle badly and probably only scraped a pass with a huge amount of help from parents, tutors or independent primary. Some do ok but are borderline academically and will never excell, but that's ok, the bucks grammars should accommodate those kids happily too.

I do wonder why people seem determined to spread nonsense about schools and the test, why can't they ensure facts are validated before repeating sometimes completely ridiculous rumours, is it the moment of having a captivated audience staring at them in disbelief, fear or hope they thrive on?

Agreed...I haven't seen any research that says this, categorically, that hasn't been "disproved" by another body of research. Depending on the status of your child, you can find research to prove or disprove a multitude of theories. And proving that a group of children get the most out of an environment must be tricky empirically. Heresay becomes fact, in the 11+ sphere, more than any other I have encountered in my professional (and not so professional!) career.

In every school, Bucks or not, you get children who flew in, children who walked in and children who clambered in by their fingertips. In some subjects the fingertips will fly, in others they won't. Ditto the birds and the ramblers. Some will do better than expected through hard work and parental help and the environment they are in encouraging it. Some won't do better than expected but will still be there. Some will find the environment actually quite challenging and threatening and may not enjoy it at all, as the academic level required may be above their natural level, regardless of whether they were birds, ramblers or fingertips, but they will still be there. (Obviously, only till the 6th form entry requirements kick in - and at that point some will fall by the wayside, again). Such is the nature of the beast.

[Yamin151]

Kcg is right of course and I like her analogy.

I think the annoying thing about the 'strugglers' theory though is how exaggerated it is, in that from what people say you'd think there were swathes of children struggling and leaving because they can't cope because they 'horror of horrors' used a tutor.
I'm sure there are probably some, but it's rare to hear of anyone leaving a grammar school before 6th form. Not unknown but rare. I still believe that the exaggerated element of this comes from sour grapes of those who feel superior becaus their DCs didnt need much coaching to get in, and those who's dcs didn't make it and they want to feel better about that. It's that that drives this myth. As in all myths it starts with a grain of truth but then that is grabbed and exaggerated to become a big fact that simpy isn't true.
As KCG says you will, as in any school, get those who coast right down to those who find it tough, and that doesn't mean that the bottom 10 in any class are 'struggling', just hat, maybe only in that subject, it's not their best. Hard work can do a lot to help that and just because they are in the bottom ten(of a very bright cohort don't forget) doesn't mean they are unhappy to be there. It's cruel and spiteful to infer that any of them shouldn't really be there. They qualified, they deserve to be there. The energy shoud, go to helping them all achieve their potential, not making them or their parents feel as if another road would have been better.

[Moon unit]

I couldn't agree more Yamin.
I am not really sure I believe that children can be over tutored. Haven't they just been taught well so they are able to fulfil their potential on the day.Particularly with the newer type of tests. In Sutton the tests are just maths and English. If you get in your maths and English ability is just better than those who didn't on the day.I imagine that the old NVR tests could be taught by tutors much more. My two luckily didn't have to do them so maybe I'm wrong.
Isn't that what most parents on here are looking for in secondary education,a school that let's their child fulfil its potential.
I don't get feedback from my two at school or friends with children at the other Sutton grammars that there are children who are having difficulty. Much more that there are plenty of bright children not at grammars who would also do well if they were there.

[Purple Teapot]

I think the biggest myth of all and what upsets me the most having grown up in this area since I was a child is the myth that if children "fail" the 11 plus they fail in life and if they pass they succeed in life - absolute bunkam! I did the 12 plus we just did the tests and merrily went on our way to secondary/grammar school and there was no tutoring or pressure. Now the pressure placed by parents is diabolical - it is not about passing and failing but about trying to find the school best suited to your ability and personality. I have friends who went to secondary school who are mult millionnaires (if you measure success by bank balance) and equally I have friends who went to grammar who are happily plodding along in not such high paid jobs! I have learnt over the years that as long as a child is happy at school and wants to learn they will do well whatever the outcome....