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 Post subject: Sibling rule in reverse?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 23
Location: SW Herts
I've tried to figure this one out for myself, but got very confused. Hopefully there's someone out there with experience/understanding of the following hypothetical scenario:

Son 1 narrowly missed out on 11+ (read elsewhere for the sorry story). Son 2 is 1 year below, but is considerably more able and should pass 11+. On past data he would get a place in Chesham High even though we are some distance away. If Son 2 then passes 12+ (a month or so later), will he then be considered as a Sibling? That would considerably increase our chances, given our location.

Quite a few 'ifs' in the above but would be grateful if anyone can tell me if it's even worth considering.

The key sentence in the admissions policy is
Quote:
A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the time of allocating (February 2008) a school place to the sibling (for the main point of entry) or Years 7-11 at the time of admission for casual applications).
Assuming Y8 entry is a 'casual' application, then the day of admission will also be No.2 son's first (or even second) day in Y7, so he will be 'attending the school'! Potentially a legal minefield so precedence would be most helpful :?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 am
Posts: 2125
Hi Hertsdad

On the face of it, and IMO, you would seem to have a case ... but proof of the pudding, and all that!

I think it's worth a try. If your son passes the 12+ and then fails to secure a place because the school is full, he should be prioritized on the waiting list as having a qualifying sibling and you could still appeall. I'm prepared to be corrected on this, though!

Best of luck to your son for the 12+, and please do let us know how you get on!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi hertsdad

You have been thinking this through, haven't you? :wink: There is no legal minefield though, I am afraid.

Your DS1 will have to wait to take the 12+ in April 2009. He cannot be treated as a Casual/In Year Admission because he has previously sat the 11+. This quote is from the Bucks Late Transfer booklet for Immediate Admissions (the red is my highlighting):

Quote:
This is the earliest time that children who are moving into the area can be tested under the Late Transfer Procedure for immediate
Year 7 – 9 admission, providing they have not previously sat the 11+ test.


Later in the same document it restates the point:

Quote:
Where a child has taken the 11+ during the previous academic year, parents can only apply for September admission in the following year. Late Transfer arrangements for Buckinghamshire are that pupils cannot move mid year unless they are moving school due to a change of residence or there are exceptional reasons why they cannot continue to attend their current school, which are supported by the headteacher of that school.


You can view the whole document here:

http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/content/index.jsp?contentid=-1894605007

The question of sibling priority in your "reverse situation" came up a year or so ago. We referred the poster to Bucks Admissions to confirm our advice, and I don't recall them coming back with the official answer.

However, as I said then, according to the rule that you have rightly quoted, the answer has to be yes, your DS 1 would be covered by the sibling rule if he passed the 12+.

Some good news for you there, at least.

Best wishes
Sally-Anne


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 Post subject: Twas me!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:03 pm
Posts: 42
I was the reverse sibling person/query!

It didn't work for us. Son sat 12+ as daughter was sitting 11+. Daughter 11+ got first choice. Son 12+ got second choice.
Apparently the sibling rule only follows from the September that they are on school roll. Although my daughter had a place she wouldn't start until September so the place doesn't begin until then !!!!!

Another flaw in our wonderful system......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm
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Would be good point for a 12+ transfer appeal though -


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:08 pm 
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Sorry Sally-Anne - I meant to PM this! :oops: :oops: :oops:

I was just a bit puzzled about the rules relating to children who have already sat the 11+ and was wondering if a successful applicant who had not got in on transfer appeal could subsequently apply as an in-year applicant if the oversubscription rules had actually changed in their favour?

Thanks

Marylou


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
If I understand the scenario correctly, Marylou, there is now a sibling at the school (whereas there wasn't before), or the family weren't in the catchment area before, but have now moved into it?

If so, then all that happens is the position on the waiting list is re-ordered.

It is also possible to request a fresh transfer appeal if there is significant new information that wasn't available to support the case before. (Admissions decide what counts as "significant"!)

_________________
Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 23
Location: SW Herts
All

Thanks for the prompt response (asked a similar question on the Herts board a couple of days ago and haven't had a reply yet - not a patch on the crowd over here!).

I wasn't thinking of an in-year application, for the reason Sally Anne gives. I thought that, as the 12+ was sat after the Y7 allocations were made, DS1 would effectively be 'at the school'. It would appear that our cunning plan might not work, though, based on njg's reply. Might be a strong basis for an appeal, mind.

Back to the drawing board...

PS Started writing this before Etienne's entry - our situation is different to Marylou's in that DS1 failed the 11+ so isn't on any waiting list (yet - could be after 12+)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8203
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Hertsdad

I think that there is a "grey area" here and I am discussing it with other knowledgable folk on the Forum and beyond.

Watch this space!

Best wishes
Sally-Anne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 am
Posts: 2125
hertsdad wrote:
our situation is different to Marylou's in that DS1 failed the 11+ so isn't on any waiting list (yet - could be after 12+)


Not quite - she hasn't taken it yet! :o We're looking ahead to next year and assuming a lot, of course, but it would be nice to know that - if she did pass - then we wouldn't subsequently have to jump through any more hoops. :x (Which would be the case with a "younger" older sibling iyswim)!


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