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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:00 pm 
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I had put only one grammar school and one comprehensive school in my son's CAF. As my son could not qualify for the grammar school, he has been offered the comprehensive school as his second choice. When I spoke to the CSSE, they informed me that my son could have got other grammar schools if I had put these schools in the original CAF at a higher preference position than the comprehensive school. I sent a new preference list to my Essex LEA through e-mail. Today I received the rejection letter from the Essex LEA.

When I spoke to a lady at the admissions, I was told that they have put the name of my son at the bottom of the waiting list as we changed the preference and it has been treated as a second application. They also mentioned that School Admissions Code does not apply in this case as it is a second application. A search in the internet has shown that several counties like Southend, Kent, Essex Redbridge etc allow the addition of new schools in the preference list. They treat these applications as "late application". It seems that they follow both the oversubscription criteria of the school as well as follow the admissions code when they put the name of a pupil at the waiting list.

Can anybody please tell me what is the catch here? If all the LEAs are following the oversubscription criteria of the school and school admission code then why the outcome is so different? In this case, getting into a grammar school or not. I don't think I can appeal in the normal way as it won't be treated as non-qualification. Can anybody from the appeal section please help?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:45 pm 
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I thought that it was possible to add your child to the waiting lists of some of the Southend schools, even if you did not name them originally.I will do a search and see if I can find the link to this information.Feel free anyone else if you can beat me to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:31 pm 
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cntrymum, I think you need to apply to Southend not Essex. This is a quote from a post in August 2010 discussing the completion of the CAF:

Quote:
I'll go out on a limb here but, if you do find that you are one short on your CAF form, then leave Southend High for Girls off. Your DD will sit the CSSE exam anyway and then, if she does not get the school you want but has achieved a high enough mark to get into Southend you can make a late application to the school with Southend's Admissions.

This is perfectly within the rules but does cause a lot of upset with those parents who have put a Southend School on their form and just miss out on a place and then see their DC go down the waiting list.

We did not know this and put 2 grammars (neither of which was in Southend) on our form and our local school and an out of catchment Comp. Our DS just missed out on place at one of grammars on form but had done well enough to be half way up list for a Southend Grammar. We called Southend a few days after results published, Southend confirmed his result with CSSE and he was allocated a place at WHSB before the end of March. He was not the only boy who gained a place this way so it is almost common practice among parents who know their way around the system. We did not set out to do this but I have now met parents who did.

It is important that it is a Southend School you leave off because Essex will not accept late applications in this way.



This "loophole" is not very popular with parents of children on the Southend waiting lists as position is determined by 11+ score.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Well done HPDad - quicker than me, but have done the dinner since last post. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Location: Chelmsford and pleased
This was in the CCHS thread for this year if it helps.
Brentwooddad wrote:
I am now losing my patience - I have just called ECC to find that my daughter has gone from position 10 to 11!

A late applicant, where the parents had made no application before, has been added to the list where the parents, I was told, did not meet any deadlines. How is this possible, for the Essex schools at least?

I assume we cannot apply late to another Essex grammar, i.e. Colchester, where my daughter's score would have been well above the offer day cut off? Or can we?

I am rather perturbed to say the least....my daughter scored very highly, enough to get into any of the boys or girls grammars other than CCHS (Chelmsford).

I understand that Chelmsford is more accessible in georgraphic terms, hence why it is so hard to secure a place, but maybe there should be an Essex catchment to stop far away parents from poaching places in our area where our taxes are spent and we have forked out to buy houses....

A very frustrated Brentwooddad


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:15 pm 
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I followed this up with ECC and they confirmed that if I applied as a late applicant but most importantly as a second application, we would go to the bottom of the list.

As noted further above, Southend apply a different approach.

Best of luck, I know how you feel.

Brentwooddad


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:08 pm
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I think the confusion is because the child who has caused brentwooddad's dc to move down a place was a first (but late) application whereas you are now trying to make a second application. The two senarios are treated differently. The quotes are from the ECC secondary schools applications booklet.

Quote:
Late applications
will be given a lower priority and will be dealt with after all on time applications in the first round of offers on 1 March 2011.
Where a school is oversubscribed late applications will be refused and ranked according to the admission criteria on any waiting list held for the particular school. All late applications will be considered by an LA panel of officers to ascertain whether exceptional circumstances for late submission exist. Where that is deemed to be the case the application will be treated as ‘on time’. Where a school is oversubscribed late applications received after the first round of offers on 1 March
2011 will be refused and ranked according to the admission criteria on a waiting list held for the particular school.

Different rules apply for further applications received after the offer date


Quote:
Further applications made after 1 March 2011
Where a new application is received after the offer date for an oversubscribed school which was not on the original list of preferences submitted and there are no exceptional circumstances requiring the new application, the LA will hold the applicant’s details on a lower priority waiting list and allocate places from this list only when there are no applicants remaining on the priority waiting list.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:18 pm
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Thank you everyone, for your comments.

Minesatea,
It seems that the policy ECC applying is not correct as they are not following School Admissions Code. After a few days of the national offer day, in several counties they allow addition of new schools in their preference list etc. and still follow the same code fairly to treat everyone the same way as the first time round. Moreover “Second Application” is a coin phrased by ECC. In all other counties these types of applications are treated as “Late Application”.

Moreover, I don’t understand why my application for a particular school CRGS will be treated as second application when it was not in my original CAF. As for technicality, I have applied for CRGS for the first time.

Anyway, it seems there is no way forward in ECC.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Hi cntrymum,

I have no idea on the legallity of this policy but it has been this way for many years - I am not saying this is right!

By further application they mean your second application to ECC not to a particular school so if your original CAF went to ECC then this new application they will class as a further application rather than a late application. The only way I think it would count as a late application would be if you had originally applied to eg. Suffolk LEA and had now moved to Essex, so were making a new application.

Why different councils operate differently I do not know.

I would think however that now you have applied to CRGS you are entilted to appeal for a place. Good luck, it is a great school and well worth it!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Minesatea wrote:
I have no idea on the legallity of this policy but it has been this way for many years


Are you sure Minesatea? This appears to be a new policy and concerns have been expressed about its legitimacy.


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