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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:27 pm
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I was looking on here last night and was surprised to see that results are given for all the selective schools you put on your form.
What I mean is you can see what rank your child was for second choice(and third if there is one) as well as the school youve been offered a place at.
My dilemma is; at the last minute we decided that we would put Westcliff first, we preferred lots of things about the teaching and the school, but we always thought Kegs would be our first choice. So my question is, if DS gets ranked high for Kegs(our second choice, as we couldnt just not put it at all) can we change our mind and appeal for that second choice at Kegs? Not saying that we would but it would be nice to know what options we have.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:58 am 
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The big issue seems to be which school you believe is best for your child. Just because a school has a higher cut-off point it is not necessarily better, all this indicates is that more people, and this could be because it is accesible to a greater number, put it first.

WHSB and KEGS are very different and, if you are a lover of statistics, it could be deemed that WHSB is doing a better job. WHSB takes a much wider range of ability and is significantly bigger than KEGS and yet its results put it in about the top 20 to 30 schools in the country most years. It certainly seems to add more value in exam outcomes against initial 11 plus scores than either of the two so called boys' super-selelctives' in the county. Is this a way to choose a school though? What other factors are in play?

Like you, our natural choice would have been KEGS and our DS scored highly enough to very comfortably go there. We liked KEGS but just felt CRGS was a better match for our DS. All schools have different atmospheres and different activities on offer, your task is to identify where your DS will be happiest, if you get that right these schools are all so good that the rest will fall into place.

My advice would be forget the cut-off points and hierarchy imposed at the school gate. If you are unsure go back again - we went three times to KEGS so it can be done. If you need questions answered ask the schools for help, it is in their interests for you to get it right. Once you have made your mind up put the schools in the order in which you genuinely prefer them.

On the question of changing your mind after allocation day, yes it can be done. The Southend schools have always let you do this and you do so by way of a "late application" and a judgement against Essex CC concerning a boy who wanted to make a late application to CRGS last year means that they now have to let people do this too. I do not think that you would use the appeals process though (someone else might correct me on this however). Just bear in mind that there will be no guarantees that there will then be movement on the waiting lists and also the impact you have on people who did put a given school in a given place on their CAF forms. If you look back at threads for earlier years this really does cause heartbreak. So, my plea to anyone would be not to try and play the system but do your research and make absolutely sure that you put schools in the right order on your form before you submit it.

Very good luck in chosing your DS's future school, I hope it all works out well you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:17 am 
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Well put crgsmum. Personally I would stick with your order of preference as that was the school that you ultimately felt was right for you all. They are all very good schools.:)


Last edited by kaynor on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:26 am 
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its fine, we are waiting for results and for lots of reasons happy with our first choice of westcliff, I have no intention of changing first preference to Kegs if it appears he ranked high enough, but just wanted to know what was the case if we did. I agree it can only cause heartache to try for a place that you havent been allocated because you chose somewhere else, and of course the reasons we chose Westcliff were not because we didnt think he'd get a place at Kegs, simply preferred the way the school was run, although it surprised us that we felt that way


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:31 am 
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regarding re -visiting Kegs, one of the things that actually put us off was the head saying " if you arent sure you want to come here, then please dont put us down" we felt that might be a little arrogant, so I am surprised that they let you visit again, we didnt even dare ask!
thanks for the replies, made me realise that weve made the right decision, now just got to wait a few more weeks to see where we are offered! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:28 am 
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One of the reasons we went back was in the hope of seeing the Head so you are one up on us. On none of the occasions we visited: October 2008, July 2009 and October 2009 was he there.

We fibbed to KEGS in October 2008 and said DS was already in year 6 when he was in year 5 but didn't have to fib to go to CRGS because it was an open evening and open to all. After these our DS liked both schools but wanted KEGS because it was where all his friends wanted to go; we preferred CRGS for lots of reasons not least of which was Mr Jenkinson the Head. We felt that we wanted to hear what the Head of KEGS had to say as we desperately wanted to prefer it. We then went to July and October 09 tours at KEGS and went again to CRGS 09 open evening.

I have to admit the deputy head who we saw at KEGS was great and if he is reflective of the senior team at the school we would have been very impressed by the Head. Even so, if the Head had turned up on our first visit and was as arrogant as he sounds we would definitely not have needed to go back.

I view our fib as a little white lie necessary to ensure that KEGS didn't land up with a boy who wasn't right for them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:33 pm 
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A quick question: one of the previous replies suggested that a change in preferences could cause heartache to others on the list who had put the school first - do you mean those not allocated but on the waiting list? I assume you someone who had been allocated a place could not have it taken away just because someone else scoring higher changes preferences?

PS, we were not as impressed by the KEGs head.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:25 pm 
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If you make a late application and would have been say, 20th, this does not mean you get a place as you would had you won an appeal, you go on the waiting list in the order determined by the admissions procedure, in the case of a grammars 11 plus result order. This would mean you would go straight to the top. If someone with a higher score makes a late application before you get a place they would slot in above you. Hope this helps.

In our year, 2009, one particular mum (search for Maymum's posts) had a dreadful time. Her DS was something like 15th or 16th on the waiting list for WHSB on allocation day. Over the following weeks she saw his placing drop down and down and down as people whose sons had not gained places at KEGS (CRGS is too far away to be relevant to Southend) and who had not put WHSB on their CAF forms made late applications knowing that, had they put it on their forms their DS's would have easily got in. Some people were open about the fact that they were only taking the places as a stop-gap while they tried to get their sons into KEGS. Eventually at the beginning of term her son was first on the waiting list but didn't get in. Much later he sat an exam and gained a place at WHSB so I assume he is happy there now and it all worked out in the end but the poor boy would have got in at the beginning had it not been for so many late applications.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:43 pm 
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We were also concerned about this situation several years ago as we did not know where we would end up.

We were assured that had we not put KEGS top and had DS passed the 11+ with a score that would have placed him in KEGS then he would go to the top of the waiting list in the position that his 11+ score would indicate.

e.g. 343 being a borderline score for KEGS and a child has just missed a place. Your son scores 380 for example, he will be placed higher on the list than the child at 343. If KEGS is on your list then you have the right to join the waiting list.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Thanks for the explanation. What a nightmare that must have been - poor child (and poor mum).


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