Advice re marking.
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Twinkle-Belle
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Re: Advice re marking.
optimisticmum is not the only parent to have done this, a lot of other parents probably have but they are just not as bold as her to say it out. Some feel the need to because of the learning environment or school their child is in, not all schools are great, let's admit. As to breaking the law, well... I'm sure some parents have done so taking their children on holiday too. Whilst i do not condone it, I wouldn't be quick to judge her either.
Re: Advice re marking.
Taking your child out of school for extra tuition to pass a test designed for naturally bright children?? Has the world gone mad?
I find the idea of tutoring for the 11+ distasteful but then again there are many who view the Grammar School setup in the same way. You do what you feel comfortable with, I would remember if a schoolmate of my daughter was taken out of school to prepare for the same test as her. It would take longer than 3 years to forget it, especially if she got in and mine didn't. I wouldn't have put mine forward for it if I didn't think she could do well with nothing more than a few familiarisation tests, what about people who can't afford tutoring?
I'll stop now
I find the idea of tutoring for the 11+ distasteful but then again there are many who view the Grammar School setup in the same way. You do what you feel comfortable with, I would remember if a schoolmate of my daughter was taken out of school to prepare for the same test as her. It would take longer than 3 years to forget it, especially if she got in and mine didn't. I wouldn't have put mine forward for it if I didn't think she could do well with nothing more than a few familiarisation tests, what about people who can't afford tutoring?
I'll stop now
Re: Advice re marking.
Is this actually a state school that has given permission? Difficult to believe its not picked up on by county attendance officers.
I would have thought that cranking up pressure like this increases the possibility of the children becoming one of those who throw up or burst into tears each year.
I would have thought that cranking up pressure like this increases the possibility of the children becoming one of those who throw up or burst into tears each year.
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optimisticmom
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm
Re: Advice re marking.
Thank you so much Twinkle-Belle.Twinkle-Belle wrote:optimisticmum is not the only parent to have done this, a lot of other parents probably have but they are just not as bold as her to say it out. Some feel the need to because of the learning environment or school their child is in, not all schools are great, let's admit. As to breaking the law, well... I'm sure some parents have done so taking their children on holiday too. Whilst i do not condone it, I wouldn't be quick to judge her either.
People do worst than take their kids out of school for a few days before the exam. As you are well aware, some kids will not return until after Sept 20th. Hence they have missed the first 21 days of school, some peeps take their kids to a tuition centre that starts at 5a.m, some kids go to a tuition centre every evening...the list of what people are doing is endless. Is it my place to judge them?? NO!!
If you can't afford to tutor, then do it yourself. Unfortunately, some people are not in the know to do that either. So what shall we say? because we all can't do what every other person is doing due to lack of finance or the "know how", we should give up and send our kids in to an exam to sink?? or not even bother about the eleven plus?
Absolutely not!! You do whatever you can to arm your child and give them a fighting chance!! If they pass, awesome!! if not, you move on from there. You need to know your child, as to whether they will benefit from last minute focussed learning or whether they need normality. What is good for kid A is not always right for kid B!
Our primary school is supporting eleven plus all the way, does it incorporate NVR, VR and the like in its daily teaching...NO!! but it does allow for those who are interested to obtain free lessons on the school premises from an external eleven plus tutor. Now, isn't that great?...can only be good, me thinks.
Going back to what Tinker Bell said re the learning environment... Some schools are great, in that they incorporate all things eleven plus into their daily teaching, many don't. In many of the great schools, they have mock tests to gear up their kids for the eleven plus exam. So if my school is not doing it, why is it a crime to do it myself?? or even pay someone to do it for me if I can afford it?? Is it fair that some can afford private schools and I can't? is it fair that some parents are teachers of English and Math and I'm not?
For some kids, the pressure is much and for some, they thrive under it all. You know your kid, you decide.
The eleven plus is not a fair exam, we already know this, hence It is only fair we all assess the situation and apply what we feel is right to aid our kids. Feel free to shoot me but I will say it again and again...you give your kid the best chance to win and do not be intimidated by those quick to judge!
Wishing you all the best for Kent this Saturday, Bexley next Tuesday and CSSE the following Saturday...ALL of which my ds will be sitting (so as you can see, he will need time off..lol!)
Happy tutoring....
Optimisticmom
Re: Advice re marking.
So you start by stating there are worse things being done by parents, not much of an argument.
I can judge and I will. The test is unfair because, in part, parents identified it as a good education at a much smaller cost than the Indy route and the tutoring business grew massively in a very short space of time. Low income families were, and are, at a great disadvantage and this will only get worse. Now children are allowed time off school to prepare as well, when will it end? CCHS have identified it and are concerned it doesn't help the child in the long term but people are still on here looking for tutoring contacts to get their child through it.
You defend it by saying you're giving your child the best opportunity and fair enough, live with it. I truly hope your child does well, it's not their fault but there are many out there who find it distasteful. I was told, to my face, not to bother entering my daughter for CCHS if she wasn't tutored. You're just one more in a number of people who haven't let your child's natural ability speak for itself, are you going to tutor if she falls behind in a couple of years, my guess is that you would, compounding your initial decision and you would 'teeheehee' about it on here.
Maybe not, she may excel and I hope she does.
I can judge and I will. The test is unfair because, in part, parents identified it as a good education at a much smaller cost than the Indy route and the tutoring business grew massively in a very short space of time. Low income families were, and are, at a great disadvantage and this will only get worse. Now children are allowed time off school to prepare as well, when will it end? CCHS have identified it and are concerned it doesn't help the child in the long term but people are still on here looking for tutoring contacts to get their child through it.
You defend it by saying you're giving your child the best opportunity and fair enough, live with it. I truly hope your child does well, it's not their fault but there are many out there who find it distasteful. I was told, to my face, not to bother entering my daughter for CCHS if she wasn't tutored. You're just one more in a number of people who haven't let your child's natural ability speak for itself, are you going to tutor if she falls behind in a couple of years, my guess is that you would, compounding your initial decision and you would 'teeheehee' about it on here.
Maybe not, she may excel and I hope she does.
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optimisticmom
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm
Re: Advice re marking.
Okay, so let me change my argument for a while, seeing as you are going to judge anyway.....
One of the reasons I tutor my kids and send them off to be tutored is because unlike you, I am not going to sit around and wonder if natural brilliance is going to shine through. How do you know your kid is naturally bright? your kids' teacher tells you so and encourages you to put them through.
When I look around, ICParent, and see what is going on with regards the whole eleven plus thang, I tell myself that (apart from my prayers) my kids have no chance in the light of all these kids being heavily tutored. So, I decide to do something about it, anything to help them just like everyone else. I am not convinced that a naturally brilliant child stands much of a chance next to kids that have had awesome coaching. The competition is far more "fiercer" than that!
According to a phone call made to the CSSE office, a friend of mine was told that there are up to 4000 (unbelievable but could be true) applicants who have registered already. We are out of catchment and have been told that only 25 spaces will be made available to us all...now you and I know that unless your kid is Einstein your chances are very slim! Should I give up ? NO!!!
The exam experience will be good for my ds, the learning is continuous and no knowledge is lost. What you call tutoring, is what I call a way of life. It didn't start with the eleven plus, neither will it end there, it goes on throughout their secondary school education, into A Levels etc. We wake up every morning and do a bit of work before school. We go home after school and do a bit more before we play or watch TV. A bit of work daily helps the brain to keep ticking. We have done this for years.
For those kids that are struggling when they get in the grammars, there is plenty of help. Surely I don't have to tell you that kids have external tutors in year 7, 8 and beyond... It ranges from languages, to science to music to Math and English, dance and drama etc. Some kids are getting 13 A stars in their GCSE's, its not sheer genious! Many of them have heeeelp! Whether the help comes from mom and dad, brother or aunty or you pay for it, it is help none the less. Our world has changed and will continue in that vein. Everyone knows this and everyone is doing what they can to aid their own; and yes, this world that has certainly gone mad and we all live in it!!
Unfortunately, in all of this, the low income families are and forever will be, at a great disadvantage and this will only get worse. There will be no end to teaching your child, helping your child, coaching your child, heavily tutoring or whatever you want to call it. Getting your child to do one familiarisation paper or a few, then some more because you have identified a weak spot is neither here nor there... it all leads in the same direction called tutoring.
My dd is in CCHS year 10 and we have since found out that kid X, Y and Z are doing brilliantly well, so I ask their parents and I am told they have help in the name of teachers that come home to help them. It just confirmed what I knew all along that helping our kids will never stop. Natural brilliance needs "polishing" believe it or not. On Child Genius the other day, the mother was giving her naturally brilliant child a health concoction to help her dd to focus and perform exceedingly well at the upcoming assessment of like minded children. In her opinion, she needed to do something to help her already selected, naturally bright spark kid get ahead of the others...and that is just life.
Optimisticmom
One of the reasons I tutor my kids and send them off to be tutored is because unlike you, I am not going to sit around and wonder if natural brilliance is going to shine through. How do you know your kid is naturally bright? your kids' teacher tells you so and encourages you to put them through.
When I look around, ICParent, and see what is going on with regards the whole eleven plus thang, I tell myself that (apart from my prayers) my kids have no chance in the light of all these kids being heavily tutored. So, I decide to do something about it, anything to help them just like everyone else. I am not convinced that a naturally brilliant child stands much of a chance next to kids that have had awesome coaching. The competition is far more "fiercer" than that!
According to a phone call made to the CSSE office, a friend of mine was told that there are up to 4000 (unbelievable but could be true) applicants who have registered already. We are out of catchment and have been told that only 25 spaces will be made available to us all...now you and I know that unless your kid is Einstein your chances are very slim! Should I give up ? NO!!!
The exam experience will be good for my ds, the learning is continuous and no knowledge is lost. What you call tutoring, is what I call a way of life. It didn't start with the eleven plus, neither will it end there, it goes on throughout their secondary school education, into A Levels etc. We wake up every morning and do a bit of work before school. We go home after school and do a bit more before we play or watch TV. A bit of work daily helps the brain to keep ticking. We have done this for years.
For those kids that are struggling when they get in the grammars, there is plenty of help. Surely I don't have to tell you that kids have external tutors in year 7, 8 and beyond... It ranges from languages, to science to music to Math and English, dance and drama etc. Some kids are getting 13 A stars in their GCSE's, its not sheer genious! Many of them have heeeelp! Whether the help comes from mom and dad, brother or aunty or you pay for it, it is help none the less. Our world has changed and will continue in that vein. Everyone knows this and everyone is doing what they can to aid their own; and yes, this world that has certainly gone mad and we all live in it!!
Unfortunately, in all of this, the low income families are and forever will be, at a great disadvantage and this will only get worse. There will be no end to teaching your child, helping your child, coaching your child, heavily tutoring or whatever you want to call it. Getting your child to do one familiarisation paper or a few, then some more because you have identified a weak spot is neither here nor there... it all leads in the same direction called tutoring.
My dd is in CCHS year 10 and we have since found out that kid X, Y and Z are doing brilliantly well, so I ask their parents and I am told they have help in the name of teachers that come home to help them. It just confirmed what I knew all along that helping our kids will never stop. Natural brilliance needs "polishing" believe it or not. On Child Genius the other day, the mother was giving her naturally brilliant child a health concoction to help her dd to focus and perform exceedingly well at the upcoming assessment of like minded children. In her opinion, she needed to do something to help her already selected, naturally bright spark kid get ahead of the others...and that is just life.
Optimisticmom
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nssdesikan
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:41 am
Re: Advice re marking.
Hi optimisticmom,
You are spot on. Even a brilliant kid requires polishing like a diamond. My son is going to sit at CSSE 2014 on the 20th (just 10 days away). He was chosen as 'Gifted child' in his school and sent to MasterClass for gifted children last year. So I have taken the things for granted and was very confident on him do well in the exam without any tutoring. But to my shock, he performed very poor when I asked him to do previous year CSSE papers. That's when I realised that he also needs some kind of tutoring / guiding and started DIY ing. Fingers crossed, how is going to perform.
You are spot on. Even a brilliant kid requires polishing like a diamond. My son is going to sit at CSSE 2014 on the 20th (just 10 days away). He was chosen as 'Gifted child' in his school and sent to MasterClass for gifted children last year. So I have taken the things for granted and was very confident on him do well in the exam without any tutoring. But to my shock, he performed very poor when I asked him to do previous year CSSE papers. That's when I realised that he also needs some kind of tutoring / guiding and started DIY ing. Fingers crossed, how is going to perform.
Re: Advice re marking.
My dd is in CCHS year 10 and we have since found out that kid X, Y and Z are doing brilliantly well, so I ask their parents and I am told they have help in the name of teachers that come home to help them. It just confirmed what I knew all along that helping our kids will never stop. Natural brilliance needs "polishing" believe it or not.
Golly, now I know what mine aren't missing by going to our lowly local Southend grammars rather than traipsing all the way to Chelmsford
. Who would want their DD to go to a school where the teaching is so poor that bright girls have to have extra coaching in order to achieve the kind of levels one might expect of them anyway?
Said if only a little a bit tongue-in-cheek, of course...
Golly, now I know what mine aren't missing by going to our lowly local Southend grammars rather than traipsing all the way to Chelmsford
. Who would want their DD to go to a school where the teaching is so poor that bright girls have to have extra coaching in order to achieve the kind of levels one might expect of them anyway?Said if only a little a bit tongue-in-cheek, of course...
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
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optimisticmom
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm
Re: Advice re marking.
Thank you nssdesikan. You are like a breath of fresh air! where have you been? lol!nssdesikan wrote:Hi optimisticmom,
You are spot on. Even a brilliant kid requires polishing like a diamond. My son is going to sit at CSSE 2014 on the 20th (just 10 days away). He was chosen as 'Gifted child' in his school and sent to MasterClass for gifted children last year. So I have taken the things for granted and was very confident on him do well in the exam without any tutoring. But to my shock, he performed very poor when I asked him to do previous year CSSE papers. That's when I realised that he also needs some kind of tutoring / guiding and started DIY ing. Fingers crossed, how is going to perform.
I know there are plenty out there who dare not talk about what they have been up to over the last six weeks and beyond, knowing that they will be "shot down".
Another parent said somewhere on this forum that they did allow their kid to sit the exam way back in 2010 without any coaching, hoping that the dear kids' natural brilliance would shine through but the kid didn't make it. Why because they had never tackled or familiarised themselves with the format. If you have never seen 21 types of VR before and you are put under time restraint of 50 minutes, you will struggle!! I tutored a friend's dd alongside my dd and the 2010 cohort and when she joined us, she took well over an hour to figure out how to crack the codes etc. She then went to an intensive over the 6 week holidays and could do the VR in 25 minutes. She had the best results out of the 4 girls I helped with tutoring. Was she naturally brilliant? awfully so. Would she have scored highly on the exam day without seeing that VR fam paper? certainly not! Is she thriving now? yes, in an indie with scholarship and all.
I know we all think everyone is doing well naturally but the truth is, if you hang around these tutoring centres or you keep your ear to the ground, you will realise that for the most part kids are getting help and there is nothing wrong with that. The teaching in the schools is not so poor, the parents just want their kids to achieve higher grades, now who doesn't?
Optimisticmom
Re: Advice re marking.
I did let my daughter's natural ability get her in.
I trusted that she could do it, her teacher didn't push her, we went to her and asked if she thought she was able. She said yes, we gave her some familiarisation tests and applied.
My opinion will count for very little but that's how the GS system should work, I'm not going to waste my time on this tutor-obsessed forum. Spend your money, help them with additional tutoring. Do what you want, you've squared with yourself and that's who is important after all, nothing i say will change your mind; why should it?
I trusted that she could do it, her teacher didn't push her, we went to her and asked if she thought she was able. She said yes, we gave her some familiarisation tests and applied.
My opinion will count for very little but that's how the GS system should work, I'm not going to waste my time on this tutor-obsessed forum. Spend your money, help them with additional tutoring. Do what you want, you've squared with yourself and that's who is important after all, nothing i say will change your mind; why should it?
