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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:00 pm 
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Dear All - Just wanted to check how can I get the previous year papers for CCHS - do they sell it or provide sample papers? I could not get much help on my search so far.

Thanks for helping out.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:08 pm 
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Location: Essex
EssexLady wrote:
Dear All - Just wanted to check how can I get the previous year papers for CCHS - do they sell it or provide sample papers? I could not get much help on my search so far.

Thanks for helping out.


I think I'm correct in saying that as CCHS uses CEM there will only be the short, generic familiarisation papers available. And whatever the various publishers may call their practice papers, they are not CEM, as CEM do not make their exam materials available to the public.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:35 am 
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They are in fact better than past papers for GL etc!

Past papers normally show you the format which is vital but the material is different.

But the "CEM like" materials are past papers and more as the same words keep coming up again and again. CGP, First Past the Post good to start with. The Bond papers are hard so leave them until last. DG


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:46 am 
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Daogroupie wrote:
They are in fact better than past papers for GL etc!

Past papers normally show you the format which is vital but the material is different.

But the "CEM like" materials are past papers and more as the same words keep coming up again and again. CGP, First Past the Post good to start with. The Bond papers are hard so leave them until last. DG



Not sure I get that...?

So are you claiming that the real CEM will put into it's real test papers the exact same vocabulary as the 'second guessing' publishers are using (which would, to be honest, seem a little odd, given the number of words in the English language), or just that in the CGP etc 'CEM' stuff, the same set of words is used over and over?

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:28 am 
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The publishers who are bringing out CEM like material are putting in the words that keep coming up again and again in actual CEM papers.

Despite CEM spouting that their papers are robust and can identify the "naturally gifted" students from the "overprepared "ones it seems that the "overprepared" troops are winning the places every time.

When CEM first emerged it was easy to get the places with no preparation as nobody was prepared and everyone was doing badly.

Now we have a flourishing CEM industry and we are back to lots of prepared students chasing not enough places.

In my experience of CEM this year those who prepared got the places. It was very predictable. No published material from CEM did not make the slightest difference. DG


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:11 pm 
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I disagree. The head at CCHS has stated that the girls who have got into the school over the last two years since introducing the CEM are completely different types of girls to the former girls who were over tutored. She says that the girls are more confident and are achieving better results because they are children who are naturally intelligent and haven't been tutored since year 2 such as happens in many private schools.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:39 pm 
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To be honest, the head of CCHS will likely use any argument to justify breaking away from Consortium and going for CEM. Not long back she was a big votary of IB (over A levels), but CCHS has now all but abandoned it.

That said, I prefer CEM format. It does away with certain types of verbal reasoning questions (which border on ridiculous) but are used in GL and other 11+ tests. It is easy to coach (or home tutor) your kids (perhaps the point that DG is making). If your kid is more analytical, CEM format will work in his/her favour. Writing section, which may faze some, has been done away completely (for good or for bad). CEM's claim that its tests are untutorable is bogus.

I agree with DG, Bond test papers are such a waste for CEM. Somehow, Bond test writers haven't grasped what CEM format is all about. The Bond papers are not just difficult; they are plain unsuitable for CEM. I had to return it to the bookstore since I found it inappropriate for CEM. I hope Bond makes a note of my comments.

Although Letts has the easiest practice tests (relative to CGP & FPTP), it is the nearest to the actual CEM test papers in terms of difficulty and structure (not to mention the audio instructions that simulate the actual test conditions very closely). My daughter who took CEM test this year confirms that actual test was simpler than CGP's (and more in line with Letts).

Some of the questions types that appear in CGP will unlikely ever appear in actual CEM test. It is important to note that answer sheet used by CEM effectively rules out several types of standard 11+ questions. For examples, only one type of Cloze questions can ever fit CEM's marking system.

May be these comments should be posted in CEM section of this forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:21 pm 
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Gosh, CEM needs to get her on board to do some pr. I have never heard of a Head trashing all the girls in her school apart from the wonderful girls brought to her by the wonders of CEM!

She can't really think that CEM has identified a completely different type of girl for the school and the girls in Y7 and Y8 came in as naturally superior and gifted compared to the ones in Y9 to Y13.

Does she really believe that CEM can sort out the "naturally intelligent" from the "over tutored"

Does she really think that the girls who got a place just went in there and applied that inate talent that only they have with no preparation?

I find this concept that CEM can sniff out the "elite who deserve to be at selective schools" very old fashioned and elitist.

The CEM format is the most tutorable format I have ever encountered. Students get better with every paper and the time requirement to finish reduces. I have been astonished by how quickly students adjust and start to do really well in the questions once the format becomes known to them.

In terms of answer sheets some schools are using CEM papers that have answer booklets rather than answer sheets. This means that other Cloze formats such as missing letter can be used. DG


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:02 am 
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CCHS Head's comment on "over-tutored" vs innately good students is still valid; although extending that to trump up CEM is stretching it too far.

May be, the point is that CEM doesn't require long-term coaching and tutoring to get better at. Good students will pick the ropes quickly and can ace it without significantly long tutoring period. If that's what she driving at, then may be CEM fits the school's bill.

Purely going by this year's reported scores in this forum, I have noticed that there was a strong correspondence between scores at CSSE (Consortium's test) and CEM (for those who took both). Those who did well at CEM also did equally well at CSSE. So each test format was equally effective, so to say.

Case in point being my daughter, who successfully took both exams with minimal format "specific" preparation. I didn't give her any CEM format test until end of August and CSSE tests until a week before the test. All preparation up to that point was very general (that is not to say that she hadn't started preparing at all until August).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Daogroupie wrote:
Gosh, CEM needs to get her on board to do some pr. I have never heard of a Head trashing all the girls in her school apart from the wonderful girls brought to her by the wonders of CEM!

She can't really think that CEM has identified a completely different type of girl for the school and the girls in Y7 and Y8 came in as naturally superior and gifted compared to the ones in Y9 to Y13.

Does she really believe that CEM can sort out the "naturally intelligent" from the "over tutored"

Does she really think that the girls who got a place just went in there and applied that inate talent that only they have with no preparation?

I find this concept that CEM can sniff out the "elite who deserve to be at selective schools" very old fashioned and elitist.

The CEM format is the most tutorable format I have ever encountered. Students get better with every paper and the time requirement to finish reduces. I have been astonished by how quickly students adjust and start to do really well in the questions once the format becomes known to them.

In terms of answer sheets some schools are using CEM papers that have answer booklets rather than answer sheets. This means that other Cloze formats such as missing letter can be used. DG


You are deliberately twisting my words.....I said that the children that have come into the school through the CEM route are different in that they are more confident and naturally bright....in no way does that trash the rest of the girls in years 9-13!!


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