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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:57 pm 


Hoefully I can find some information that is easy to understand and not wrapped up in red tape.

My son sits the 11+ this year and we are trying to work through the mindfield of preferences/rankings/scores etc.

We have been assured both by the LEA and the Consortium that The 2 grammar school do NOT get to see the oreder of preferences (I personally have my doubts, but for the sake of this argument I'll accept that).

The hypothetical scenario is that we place Southend as first preference and Wetscliff as second.

Therefore, as there are 125 places (in catchment) at Southend and 115 places at Westcliff....surely it is logical to assume that if our son is ranked in the top 240 he will be offered a place at one of these schools???..even if he is ranked 239 and every child before him chooses Westcliff or Southend as a first or second preference?

I cannot get a straight answer to this question...just keep getting sidetracked with stuff like..."depends how many other preferences/applications for Southend are received"...but surely this is irrelevant as it goes on achievement in 3 exams and then rankings??

Are we missing something really obvious here? We write as parents that have taken the 11+ ourselves years ago so would assume we have a modicum of intelligence, but may be not.......any info would be greatly appreciated....thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:58 pm 
remlap wrote:


Hoefully I can find some information that is easy to understand and not wrapped up in red tape.

My son sits the 11+ this year and we are trying to work through the mindfield of preferences/rankings/scores etc.

We have been assured both by the LEA and the Consortium that The 2 grammar school do NOT get to see the oreder of preferences (I personally have my doubts, but for the sake of this argument I'll accept that).

The hypothetical scenario is that we place Southend as first preference and Wetscliff as second.

Therefore, as there are 125 places (in catchment) at Southend and 115 places at Westcliff....surely it is logical to assume that if our son is ranked in the top 240 he will be offered a place at one of these schools???..even if he is ranked 239 and every child before him chooses Westcliff or Southend as a first or second preference?

I cannot get a straight answer to this question...just keep getting sidetracked with stuff like..."depends how many other preferences/applications for Southend are received"...but surely this is irrelevant as it goes on achievement in 3 exams and then rankings??

Are we missing something really obvious here? We write as parents that have taken the 11+ ourselves years ago so would assume we have a modicum of intelligence, but may be not.......any info would be greatly appreciated....thanks



They do not know your preferences and it makes no difference in so much as if your child gets within the cut off point for Southend and that is his first choice that is what he will be offered. If he makes it for Westcliff, you will not be offered Westcliff as you will be offered Southend only as it was your first choice so think carefully before you chose the first choice. Westcliff is usually harder to get into so you might be better putting that as your first choice simply because if he doesn't get in there but qualifies for Southend, he will get offered his second choice, Southend. As Westcliff will be harder to get into, if you put Southend first but he did do well enough for Westcliff, you would not be offered it as he would definitely have got into Southend and it was first on your list (am I making sense?!!). Put the hardest school first because he might just make it in there and will be offered it if it is his first choice. If he doesn't make it, he will be offered the next on the list and so on. My son goes to Westcliff and has done really well there and enjoyed it but I thought Southend was nice when we looked around as well (that was 6 years ago though!). Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:00 pm 
Many thanks for this reply. I understand about allocation of the 1st / 2nd choice, but your info re. Westcliff being harder and therefore best to put them first, to cover all bases, is helpful.

I'm just very suspicious when you ask the question of the LEA/Consortium and either get gobbleydygook or no answer at all. It just seems obvious to us that if he's ranked in the top 240 (240 being total number of in catchment places for Souhtend plus Westcliff) that he would definitely gfet aplace, but we can't get a straight 'YES'.

Could I ask what sort of score your son got? i.e. ranking and raw score?...we've been told from various sources that he has to get an average of 75% on each paper (Eng/Maths/VR)?...but on the basis VR is 50% of the total mark, we're trying to work out (worst case scenario)how many he could drop marks in Eng/Maths.

We are, of course, also concentrating on getting his accuracy and speed up, but been doing this for the last 3 years, so trying another tack now! His SATS result for the end of YR 5 were really good, so in theory he should be ok, but as everyone knows the 11+ is a different game altogether.

Thanks again


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:39 am 
remlap wrote:
Many thanks for this reply. I understand about allocation of the 1st / 2nd choice, but your info re. Westcliff being harder and therefore best to put them first, to cover all bases, is helpful.

I'm just very suspicious when you ask the question of the LEA/Consortium and either get gobbleydygook or no answer at all. It just seems obvious to us that if he's ranked in the top 240 (240 being total number of in catchment places for Souhtend plus Westcliff) that he would definitely gfet aplace, but we can't get a straight 'YES'.

Could I ask what sort of score your son got? i.e. ranking and raw score?...we've been told from various sources that he has to get an average of 75% on each paper (Eng/Maths/VR)?...but on the basis VR is 50% of the total mark, we're trying to work out (worst case scenario)how many he could drop marks in Eng/Maths.

We are, of course, also concentrating on getting his accuracy and speed up, but been doing this for the last 3 years, so trying another tack now! His SATS result for the end of YR 5 were really good, so in theory he should be ok, but as everyone knows the 11+ is a different game altogether.

Thanks again



Can I ask if you are in the catchment area for Southend schools? It makes a huge difference on what you son needs. My son actually did really well. He got 98% in VR, 97% in Maths and 89% in English and came 53rd in the County out of 4080 (we were stunned!). They don't give you the County positions any more (my daughter was just given her position for Chelmsford County High this year). I think he will need to get around 70% or so but you are correct on the VR. Concentrate mostly on getting his scores up on this paper. I have known children to do really well on that and badly on the other papers and still get a place. It is not true that he will need 85%+ (they will tell you he does at open evening) but obviously he must aim for as high as possible to give him the best chance. I know that in my daughters year, the boys that got in to the Southend schools scored around 60-70% and are outside the area (if they are outside the area they have to achieve approx 10% more that those inside the area). If his SATs results are already high, he is obviously capable. It is all down to the day - hopefully he won't get too worked up and nervous. You also get years where the competition is tougher. Keep the practice going - timing is everything. The one thing I would say is that he must finish the VR paper on the day - that is so important. Have you bought the past papers from the Consortium? If you haven't I would recommend you do - they are unlike anything he will have seen so far and a very good indicator of what to expect on the day! Good luck!


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 Post subject: reply
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:03 am 


Thanks agin for your reply..sorry I've only just read it...been busy doing 11+ prep!!

It really is a nightmare for all of us.

yes, luckily we are in catchment...We've been told about this "priority pass mark" which iss 55% and equates to a score of 302.5

Our problem is slightly complicated more by the fact that our son goes to a private school and we feel they are not treating his individual needs as much as they should (which was the reason hwe went private).

yes he's bright, (we've had him tested on the Ravens matrices and he was off the scale!) especially considering he's a July birthday, but I don't think the teachers/Head see him as him, but just as another kid in the class of 20 (!!) who's doing well anyway. They don't support the over achievers as much as the under achievers. I know they label us a the ultimate "pushy parents" but we really don't care ....just care about giving our son the best opportunity possible.

I'm not a native to this area and it seems that most other parents just pay the money and sit back thinking the school will do everything else...that is soooo not the case.

He's had a mock (all 3 papers) 2 weeks ago and scored an average of 69% and has another this Friday so fingers crossed for an improved score..

Thanks again for your words of wisdom form your experience. You must be proud that your children did so well.

I'll keep the site posted for anyone that's interested!!

Until next time




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 Post subject: Re: reply
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:14 am
Posts: 171
Location: Lincolnshire
remlap wrote:


I don't think the teachers/Head see him as him, but just as another kid in the class of 20 (!!) who's doing well anyway. They don't support the over achievers as much as the under achievers. I know they label us a the ultimate "pushy parents" but we really don't care ....just care about giving our son the best opportunity possible.

I'm not a native to this area and it seems that most other parents just pay the money and sit back thinking the school will do everything else...that is soooo not the case.



This is not uncommon. My son is not seen as himself, just one of those that they don't need to put that much input into. All the extra help and resources are geared towards those that are under achieving or struggling to reach the required "average". With regard to the parents attitudes, again I have also had the same experience, but within a state school. The attitude appears to be " its up to the school to make sure that my child is getting what is best for him, that's the schools job, not mine."

SJ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:24 pm 
I don't know if this helps but... The system for allocating places is quite complicated and the reason the Consortium won't give you a straight yes or no is that they don't offer the places.
It's not as straightforward as saying if he came in the top 240 he should get a place, because he would also have to score above the minimum Southend Pass mark to be considered. Last year Southend offered 113 of their in borough places but Westcliff only offered 63 so only 176 of the 240 in borough places were offered out. This is because not enough boys who put them down as a choice scored high enough. Therefore in that situation being in the top 240 is not good enough.

Bear in mind that a ranking of 1 is the top scorer working downwards.

Also the two schools are not lumped together when ofering the places. When your son takes the test he will be ranked on the in borough list of everyone who named Westcliff as a choice and also separately on the list for Southend.

For example on the Westcliff rankings if your son achieved a score of 340 but five boys scored higher than him he would be ranked sixth on their list. With the same score he will also be ranked against boys on the Southend list but there may be twenty boys who scored higher than he did so he would come twenty first. On both lists he would have scored high enough to be offered a place but the LEA will offer you the highest preference on your form.


remlap wrote:


Hoefully I can find some information that is easy to understand and not wrapped up in red tape.

My son sits the 11+ this year and we are trying to work through the mindfield of preferences/rankings/scores etc.

We have been assured both by the LEA and the Consortium that The 2 grammar school do NOT get to see the oreder of preferences (I personally have my doubts, but for the sake of this argument I'll accept that).

The hypothetical scenario is that we place Southend as first preference and Wetscliff as second.

Therefore, as there are 125 places (in catchment) at Southend and 115 places at Westcliff....surely it is logical to assume that if our son is ranked in the top 240 he will be offered a place at one of these schools???..even if he is ranked 239 and every child before him chooses Westcliff or Southend as a first or second preference?

I cannot get a straight answer to this question...just keep getting sidetracked with stuff like..."depends how many other preferences/applications for Southend are received"...but surely this is irrelevant as it goes on achievement in 3 exams and then rankings??

Are we missing something really obvious here? We write as parents that have taken the 11+ ourselves years ago so would assume we have a modicum of intelligence, but may be not.......any info would be greatly appreciated....thanks


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 Post subject: 11+mindfield
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:04 pm 
Dear guest (no experrt)

Many thanks for your reply....quite surprised but pleased to read your comments.

The consortium have confimred (last 2 yrs running ) that the priority pass mark is 55%(for within Southend catchment) which equates to a score of 302.5.

I just presumed that loads of boys would get higher than this 55% and therefore there would be an over subscription for the few places i.e. 240 covering S'end and Westcliff High for Boys.

It surprised me that not enough boys achieved at least 55% and that therfore not all the available within catchment places were allocated (within catchment).

Great confidence booster....many thanks!!


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