URGENT! SOUTHEND WAITING LISTS INFO

[Another worried Mum]

I think that the whole system across the geographical area of Essex is flawed. Those of us who live within the Essex County Council area are allowed a choice of only 4 on our CAF. So if you apply for perhaps two grammars, then your absolute fall-back position (essential if you live not too far from an undersubscribed school which is just out of special measures!), you have very limited choices. In our own personal situation, we also had the consideration of faith-based schools to add to the mix.

It is a very confusing time and there is little, if any, information provided (except for this forum which is great) about what logically you should think about. For example, I know of someone who's DS sat the 11+, but who didn't put a grammar in first place on his CAF. Needless to say, DS was then offered the first place choice, which happened to be the local comp. I am sure this is fine for him, but is really a wasted choice and the parents didn't really understand what they were doing - they thought that he would be offered the grammar if his score was high enough.

In Southend Borough, the CAF allows for a choice of 5 schools. Given that the area is also smaller geographically, this just seems bizarre.

It does seem very unfair that those who have stuck to the rules, considered very carefully what they apply for, and in which order, should then be effectively penalised by parents who have not taken such consideration with the CAF. Surely those people have had exactly the same opportunities to consider what they really wanted - they must have at least decided to enter DC for the 11+ in the first place. It seems an extremely unfair form of getting another bite of the cherry - and if it is to be allowed, then it should be allowed for everyone.

After all, other Local Authorities manage to have their 11+ exams done and dusted before CAFs are due!

[slug62]

So, if you were out of catchment and had put kegs as your first choice and the loal comps as your second, third and fourth, but your child didn't score highly enough to get into kegs but, say, got 345 which, say, might be enough for SHSB or WHSB, you can get in .... even though you didn't put them down on the form in the first place? Is this what you mean?

Does this also apply to in-catchment kids who took the 11+ to get into cecil jones/st thomas more, but who scored high enough to get tp WHSB etc, but who had not put grammars on the form?

Surely this is moving the goalposts big-time, and isn't right or fair? I have never heard of this before. Is this true?

[kracken]

Chelmsford mum

Exactly, though we had 6 choices and didn't get any of them

The truth is there are too many kids going for too few decent school places.

[proud chelmsford mum]

I have 2 children at Grammars yet am exasperated at the stories I hear about lengths some parents go through to tutor their children, this being in the competitive private sector (3 years intensive training , the child did not get the place of choice and probably would have really struggled with the intensity of work).
My children are bright, and had good luck on the day which enabled them to go to the Chelmsford Grammars, which from my name indicates schools in close proximity to where we live. My son took the 11+ in Nov last year, I had KEGS first and Westcliff down as my second choice. Despite the travelling, would have been extremely happy for my ds to go there. From when we sat the 11+ to when we received the placements was horrendous. I just kept thinking of the unfareness that he may not be given an out of catchment place when scoring a higher mark than someone in catchment. This is not right when Chelmsford and Colchester take from anywhere.
This whole 11+ system is wrong, and I can say this now without sounding like sour grapes. If you want to keep the very high standard then have everyone on an equal playing field. That Southend should take local children when Chelmsford and Colchester do not is wrong. If a child scores a higher mark then he should be awarded the place, as with the ds of Silver29.
Silver29 I really sympathize with you.

[kracken]

it does seem very unfair that those who have stuck to the rules, considered very carefully what they apply for, and in which order, should then be effectively penalised by parents who have not taken such consideration with the CAF.

I guess we need to know what the rules actually are on this. It's all rather speculation at the moment. If this is actually happening as Silver29 stated then surely it is within the rules? It wouldn't be allowed otherwise would it?

[Another worried Mum]

Kracken

I suppose you are right - it does appear that this is within the rules: at least for Southend applications. My undersanding of the Essex rules was that you made your decisions, submitted the CAF and that was the end of it. The die was cast and there was no chance to change your mind once the actual scores were known. The problem seems to be that the rules are different depending upon where you live, so the already uneven playing field is changed again.

I feel that the real ones suffering from this are those children who find out that they are (say) 5th on a waiting list - only to find out a few days later that they have somehow moved down, rather than up. I would be beside myself if I had had to explain that one to DD, so can't even imagine what these poor families are feeling.

The children affected by this are the real victims here - they have done what they have been asked to do, but find themselves in an unexplicable situation.

Whatever happens here, there needs to be a clear process for EVERY application - and wouldn't it be even better if the same rules applied everywhere? I am sure that there are many Essex parents who would like to see some kind of preferential treatment given to our in-catchment children - especially as many children are travelling from a long way out-of-area to attend some of the schools in the county.

[kracken]

The problem seems to be that the rules are different depending upon where you live

Unfortunately so it would seem.

Don't get me wrong I agree with Silver29 that it is unfair, I just wanted to pitch the other side of the argument and to put up another view point on the process.

At the end of the day I guess the grammar schools are going to want to take higher pass mark pupils if possible, it only stands to reason. It's a results orientated business after all.

I saw in the paper yesterday a grammar went in to special measures because it dipped to 95% A to C* pass mark. Most parents would die for a school with that percentage

On another thread in another county some Grammars have been touting for people with high scores to switch preferences.

Nothing surprises me anymore

[Chelmsford mum]

Yes in the county we used to live in,( a part of Surrey but also a London Borough), it is absolutely routine to get offers from grammars that were lower preferences after offer day.
By which I mean you place grammar 1 first, grammar 2 second ,grammar 3 next on list.Say you pass grammar 1 , a few days after offer day grammar 2 and 3 write to you and say "We see you passed really well , ring us if you still want a place."
Again not really sticking by the rules is it? But, as you rightly say, for many schools they see the results and not the children involved.

Happily this does not seem to be the practice in Essex.

[essex-mum18]

essex-mum18

Getting back on topic then

There is a purpose to fill in the CAF form in October i.e for parents to think very carefully to put the school in the right order for their children's secondary schools. If they can let the late application to 'jump in' on the waiting list, so what is the point in the first place to fill in the form?

Yes because these are the preferences you list to be worked through from 1 down to how many you are allowed. Say 4 in this case. If you are allocated your fist choice all other choices are withdrawn etc.

The waiting List is a completely different situation though, preferences can no longer count can they. Anybody can go on the waiting list.

So all those who took the test can go on the waiting list for the Grammar schools covered by the test taken surely.

Your waiting list position is then determined by distance if catchment criteria or score if selective criteria.

I don't see the logic that the preferences should hold all the way through the process through to the waiting list. They only hold at the point the initial selection is performed.

If you moved on the doorstep of a very good comp you would expect to go on the waiting list if the allocation is full, surely being on top of the school you would expect to be at the top of that list? I don't see how this is any different.

I take your point. As suggested before, different county has different policy re preference or waiting list.

However, I think the parents should be well informed about the waiting list policy before so that they are well prepared how the system work should their children are put on the list.

My understanding that the system in Essex is to complete the CAF in October for the choice of 4 schools, children will be put on the waiting list for those preference schools if the required scores have not been met initially. If the case is true as in Silver29, I feel unjustified is that some people have in effect the chance to make a 5th choice. I do understand that you can make as many choices as you like after the result e.g going the private route etc. But surely, providing it should not affect the other children's chances who are on the list already.

I agree with another poster saying that the children who do not pass the 11+ are the real victims in the whole system. They all deserve a good education no matter where they live.

[FlightyRachel]

All I can say is we are in a certain London Borough who advised us to go on the waiting List for both Southend and Westcliff!!

They didnt!????!! What a flippin' cheek! (As we say in Essex).